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Thread: Dota 2 Cosmology - WIP

  1. #41
    Valve Developer Lamprey's Avatar
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    Neal Stephenson, Greg Bear &c have been doing something similar with their crowd-sourced Mongoliad.

  2. #42
    Valve Developer Lamprey's Avatar
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    People are perhaps rightfully confused about how all these different cultures can exist without being neatly tied together; there is a natural impulse to organize and codify everything, especially in the context of games, where it so often comes down to numbers and stats. The universe of Dota 2 is in a crazy growth mode at the moment; the time will come when the landscapers move in and cut everything back and start trimming and pruning. Meanwhile, if you think of it as a typical two dimensional map of fantastic kingdoms, also add in a Z-axis involving the influence of other maps and other planes of existence. It's more like the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah, with different spheres of existence interpenetrating. The Dire and Radiant stones emit an influence in all these realms, which is why they are of concern to beings like Spectre...although it seems like some beings from outside the Dota universe might be pulled into the struggle involuntarily, simply due to the power of the stones.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post
    although it seems like some beings from outside the Dota universe might be pulled into the struggle involuntarily, simply due to the power of the stones.
    So we're classifying the dota universe as the one with the physical stones in them? How will this work in terms of rivalries, etc with heroes that are classified as coming from different universes? They hardly have the opportunity to develop relationships with other heroes if they originate from different universes and have only come for the battle. This also makes it kind of confusing in terms of locations and such; which ones are in the "dota world" and which ones are outside it?

  4. #44
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    i think he is refering to Zeus mostly

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HTB View Post
    So we're classifying the dota universe as the one with the physical stones in them? How will this work in terms of rivalries, etc with heroes that are classified as coming from different universes? They hardly have the opportunity to develop relationships with other heroes if they originate from different universes and have only come for the battle. This also makes it kind of confusing in terms of locations and such; which ones are in the "dota world" and which ones are outside it?
    I think that the "Dota map" is simply a 2 dimensional plane in this "universe" that contains all the lore behind the game. (Although, it's really a 3d section of a 4d universe, but it's much simpler to think of it as a 2d map that somehow has a Z axis, as Lamprey said.) Certain planes, or regions in the universe intersect with each other in different ways, similar to how in a 2d universe, all the neighboring regions border each other. But due to the fact that all these varying regions, races, and cultures have to interact with each other on a more complicated basis than just being neighboring regions, these "sections" are actually 3d parts of a greater 4d universe. For example, if Zeus is an all-powerful god in one region, but obviously isn't in the "Dota map" region, then his home world must intersect with the Dota region differently than it does with the region where he is considered a god. But the one thing that penetrates all these regions equally is the influence of the Dire and Radiant. So all these different heroes from varying and unconnected worlds are all brought together by the influence of the Dire and the Radiant. Even 2 heroes who live in worlds that don't have any connection whatsoever can meet in the world of the "Dota map" where they fight. It's an interesting metaphysical solution to having such a complex set of worlds, and I personally like it.

    If I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, Lamprey, please let me know.

  6. #46
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    well i figured most of the heroes that had their homelands mentioned that are not explicitly stated to be in another universe (well we got quite a few of those too) are from the same World that the DotA map is located in.
    But yess a bit clarification on that one would be nice.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zordak View Post
    well i figured most of the heroes that had their homelands mentioned that are not explicitly stated to be in another universe (well we got quite a few of those too) are from the same World that the DotA map is located in.
    But yess a bit clarification on that one would be nice.
    I don't think all the different regions need to intersect each other in complex ways. Zeus is obviously an example of a complex intersection because he is not an all powerful god in the Dota map region, but some or many of the regions can also intersect with each other in simpler ways, such as just being bordering regions in a single plane, or sphere. So the heroes that are "humans" probably all live in regions that simply border each other like two regions on a map, for example.

  8. #48
    Great work with this lore. It's very unique and ties in perfectly with the continuity from "Tales from the Secret Shop." I can easily see myself reading more novels/graphic novels of stuff like this. I like that the Radiant/Dire conflict has this cosmic timelessness, and as a result of a cataclysm, this planet and its inhabitants are now wrapped up in it.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post
    People are perhaps rightfully confused about how all these different cultures can exist without being neatly tied together; there is a natural impulse to organize and codify everything, especially in the context of games, where it so often comes down to numbers and stats. The universe of Dota 2 is in a crazy growth mode at the moment; the time will come when the landscapers move in and cut everything back and start trimming and pruning. Meanwhile, if you think of it as a typical two dimensional map of fantastic kingdoms, also add in a Z-axis involving the influence of other maps and other planes of existence. It's more like the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah, with different spheres of existence interpenetrating. The Dire and Radiant stones emit an influence in all these realms, which is why they are of concern to beings like Spectre...although it seems like some beings from outside the Dota universe might be pulled into the struggle involuntarily, simply due to the power of the stones.
    That sounds like the story in Soul Calibur 4, where the power and the strife of the two swords caught the attention of the Star Wars Empire. I know that was more like a non-canon crossover but the influence reaching other planes of existence thing still reminds me of that.
    I guess Omni Knight, Huskar, Blood Seeker etc are fighting for religions that were inspired by the myths about the Ancients?

    So far I really love what you thought of there. It would also be great to know how the world or rather universe of Dota is built up. There is hell, the underscape, earth (not ours), some sort of heaven with doughy gods like Zeus (I like his lore but do we really want to associate the lore with Greek mythology?), there are islands and valleys, a land where good and evil are reversed, tundras and desserts, a time-lord realm, different universes...
    I think a map or something would help to put all of that into context. I guess saying "The Ancients screw up reality" is enough of a reason but I would still love a world-map XD
    EDIT: Should have read more carefully...I was tired T~T
    Last edited by Cymen; 12-11-2011 at 06:54 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamprey View Post
    Maybe as suggested above: "And much as we embrace or reject our own cultures, some heroes might simply reject the influences they were exposed to early on...and be drawn to the opposite." Not sure. Denying is not something that would seem to have a compelling reason to have a fiction. I don't think every bit of gameplay needs to figure in the lore...unless it turns out to suggest something worth exploring, which is always possible.
    Maybe if we put it in a way that our heroes would have some solemn last words for denied allies for the greater cause at times.

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