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Thread: Friendly bots are blatantly feeding the enemy bot team

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkittlesAreYum View Post
    I'm not convinced it's that simple. I often play with my friend in bot games, leaving three bots on our team. One of the bots will suicide into a 5 man push, while the other two aren't there. If it's humans messing up their hive mind, wouldn't it instead be three bots suiciding against five?
    Well the problem is that they don't have a hivemind if their team isn't complete. It just seems to not be there at all, which results in them making individual choices which they're (evidently) terrible at. It's why I'd like to get rid of the hivemind, with the hivemind removed we'd be able to identify issues better, as there wouldn't be a disparity between enemy and allied bot behavior. On top of that, the hivemind is the cause of many more issues like the continuous 5-man Dota.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KlausKinski View Post
    Bots have hivemind so they play worse when there's someone missing for their 5 man strat (human player)

    Solutions

    a) suggest your bots to pick Viper. Bots will always feed Viper, guaranteed no-challenge game.

    b) play with friends

    c) get better, don't lane with bots and take the mid lane (aka dominating the bots if you're decent)
    I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumbla View Post
    I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.
    Thing is this is true with humans too, which might make the bots ideal for practicing support. Nothing quite like having a team of 4 carries and 'what's a courier' and feeling forced to play support then watching your 'partner' walk into death over and over. That said, I do agree that bots tend to function worse with a human 'babysitting' them but on the other hand I've seen Luna and CK have horrible farm (less than their bot 'babysitters') and then proceed to feed the rest of the game and this was in an all bot game.

    That said, going mid with any hero and having a solid farm and/or ganking phase should give at least passable results. Sometimes the bots feed horribly and there's little you can do, maybe a much better player than me can win after the bots leave me with a 10-70 in kill scores despite my 6 kills and zero deaths at that time. Some of the rubbish I saw that game was... horrific. 'Oh look there's a team fight, let's all run into DP's ultimate and die one at a time' over and over again.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumbla View Post
    I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.
    I completely disagree, carrying the bots as support is really easy since they won't contest your pulls and you can just kill them repeatedly in lane 'cause you're like 3 levels above 'em and they're constantly exposed to ganks. I usually get so fat I can easily brute force carry as CM / Enchantress. The main problem is playing hard carries which is the worst possible scenario imaginable unless you exploit their AI. If I have to test stuff I feel better farming pulls than farming against an impossible lane with a full wand charged up 24/7 and 80 stuns and a support that does nothing short of griefing.

    It honestly seems like there's one AI that handles both sides, and decides that the enemy bots will get a kill on your bots because you're too farmed / too leveled and the game wants to restore balance. Same reason why the enemy bots will always 5 man gank the human player at 6 minutes (at least that's always been the case for me).

    Also it seems like the enemy bots save everything they have for you, the human player, and they will basically chase you around all the time (?) no matter what hero you're playing. This should damage their economy horribly because they spend 90% of their time roaming as 5 trying to gank the human player, but I guess they cheat on XP / gold.

    If you play mid you can disrupt this whole thing and gank the enemy team over and over with the level advantage which seems to completely tilt the enemy bots and leads to scores like 50-1 in your favor. Your bots also become a lot more responsive / aggressive which is really weird, they just act smarter and follow up on your moves etc.

    If I play a hard carry like PA my support will do 0 harass on the enemy melee (while I get harassed continuously) will feed 3-4 kills right off the bat, every single time in the same exact way, then leave my lane and just walk around the map doing nothing, come back with a 3-4 levels disadvantage, feed more, then come back, push the lane and feed more. Then the enemy bots just gather as 5 and take T1 to barracks completely uncontested, with the allied bots just running repeatedly into 'em. Also the fact your bot spams whatever skill he has all the time in lane, if that skill is spammable (e.g. venge wave of terror, dazzle shadow wave, whatever pushes the lane basically), the enemy bots are unbeatable 'cause they constantly have 15 wand charges.

  6. #16
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    Pretty dumb coding with the hivemind or whatever you call it. I would say it is a bug. Did some testing on unfair bots with 1 human players. As long as opposing bots comprise of Necro, 1 DPS like viper or drow and an AOE stun tank like Sven or tiny. Basically it is being coded that human team will lose at the beginning of the game. For some reason no matter how well the player played here, the behavior of human team bots in this setup will just feed mindlessly.

    About 10 minutes of play onward, human side bots will just start to stick and feeding feast start. they would walk alone up to the front of opposing bots (even with 3 bots there) and patrol in front of them not using any skill and let them kill. You ping them to defend, they would refuse to return and stay at their position only return when opposing bots are getting near but the best part is that our bots would walking into their hive at this time instead of returning earlier when ping and choose to walk into the feeding path. One good example, opposing hive engaging creep before river, pinged for defence, this damn bot would just refuse to return and stay at original position and with reply pushing bottom or whatever. But that bot is not moving. Once opposing hive crossed river then suddenly that bot realize it is time to feed. instead of choosing a safe path or return earlier, it walk right into their path where it will meet opposing hive to feed them

    It is comfirm that in this setup, other than the human players the rest of the 4 bots will feed at leats 10 to 20 death with leass than 5 kills in a 40 minutes game.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumbla View Post
    I think C is the most important; it's very easy to solo mid against any of the bots. I would also add not to play supports, as supporting bots is not ideal as it allows their stupidity to fuck things up. If you pick a hero with solo game impact, you can usually win unless the bots are feeding ridiculously heavily + you have much worse team comp.
    C is the most useless when the game is already being decided at the start of the game. for some reason, I can have 20+kills with less than 5 death but still getting owned. For a simple reason, our bots just feed with death of up to 10-20 each. Where in certain matchup, the human player can afk for the whole game and yet their bots can tear through the hivemind. Dumb coding I would say. Though I am not a programmer and not knowing how but such situation where a game is being decided right from the start depending on matchup is lousy.
    Last edited by qwerty12; 04-03-2013 at 12:19 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty12 View Post
    C is the most useless when the game is already being decided at the start of the game. for some reason, I can have 20+kills with less than 5 death but still getting owned. For a simple reason, our bots just feed with death of up to 10-20 each. Where in certain matchup, the human player can afk for the whole game and yet their bots can tear through the hivemind. Dumb coding I would say. Though I am not a programmer and not knowing how but such situation where a game is being decided right from the start depending on matchup is lousy.
    The issue right now is certain bots just completely crush other bots, typically because the AI doesn't know how to properly react to their skills. Jakiro's Macropyre and slowing orb effects are examples of abilities that can cause your bots to quickly feed. I just played a game where the enemy had Sand King, Kunkaa, Jakiro, Warlock, and Luna. The bots always 5 man, so you can imagine how team fights went. My guys would literally be completely wiped in 4 seconds.

  9. #19
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    Yeah Jakiro is one of the best supports at the moment and a very popular one both casually and competitively and bot Jakiro plays pretty well most of the time. The kicker though is the fact the bots love standing in a big group together so they can all get owned by an ice path, followed by a boat, followed by Jak's ult, followed by DP's ult or whatever else.

    Jakiro is probably on Viper tier, he almost always does well only a handful of games I've seen him do poorly. Jakiro and Viper together is horrible for the bots, especially if they've got DP, Kunnka or someone like that.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty12 View Post
    C is the most useless when the game is already being decided at the start of the game. for some reason, I can have 20+kills with less than 5 death but still getting owned. For a simple reason, our bots just feed with death of up to 10-20 each. Where in certain matchup, the human player can afk for the whole game and yet their bots can tear through the hivemind. Dumb coding I would say. Though I am not a programmer and not knowing how but such situation where a game is being decided right from the start depending on matchup is lousy.
    If you have over 20 kills and less than 5 deaths it's pretty easy to win if you -really- want to, just split push (really easy with travels). Bots are too dumb to understand that a lineup with sven/dp/tiny+2 can easily take a rax (or two..) and then defend their base from one guy; they immediately 5 man tp and chase you around the map wasting time, every time you show up on a lane.

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