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Thread: Old Community Crate Items Not In the Store: Unfair to The Contributors

  1. #1
    Basic Member ned_ballad's Avatar
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    Old Community Crate Items Not In the Store: Unfair to The Contributors

    I have a concern with event crates in the past with community items in them, and the lack of these items being in the store. It's one thing for Pudge's dragon hook, and other Valve made items not being in the store, as those might be "exclusive" to the crate or whatever, but with community items, these contributors are not making any money on the items they created.

    Here's a list of community items not in the store:

    Mask of Dark Ferocity
    Molten Genesis
    Ember Edge
    Catalyst Cap
    Flesh Ripper
    Blade of Cleaving Swiftness
    Claive of Unyielding Stone
    Heavy Tenderizer
    Ignited Scepter
    Boneslayer
    Bloodstained Britches
    Direstone Liferipper
    Rotten Stache
    Trident of the Sea Stalker
    Ghost Orb of the Planeswalker
    Heirloom of the Temple Priestess
    Lantern of Death’s Last Light
    Twisted Lightbringer
    Hellish Gemstaff
    Elemental Ice Infusion
    Sash of Death's Bride
    Brooch of Death's Bride
    Soul Reaper

    Is there any reason they're not in the store? These contributors aren't making money on what they made. Half of those items randomly drop too, which could be lost money.

    It's almost a curse for these contributors to be in crates, they make less money then had it been in the store...
    Last edited by ned_ballad; 02-05-2013 at 06:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Well, maybe if they were given a % of every event key purchase... (obviously respective to their items being on the possible chest loot)
    )

  3. #3
    Basic Member ned_ballad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalgreed View Post
    Well, maybe if they were given a % of every event key purchase... (obviously respective to their items being on the possible chest loot)
    )
    they are

    but... that's still not fair. That's not even close to the money they could make over the lifespan of Dota 2 having it in the store.

  4. #4
    Basic Member Gboon's Avatar
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    Yeah, this is crap on Valve's part. If Valve wants to make limited time only items be their guest, but people who expected items to be in the shop shouldn't be left hanging.

  5. #5
    Basic Member ned_ballad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gboon View Post
    Yeah, this is crap on Valve's part. If Valve wants to make limited time only items be their guest, but people who expected items to be in the shop shouldn't be left hanging.
    My hope is that by including a list, it'll help them do it real quick. I also emailed the contents of this thread to the Dota 2 team.

    For some heroes, this could nicely bulk up their store pages too (especially Warlock, who would get 3 items independent of the set, which is nice for variety)
    Last edited by ned_ballad; 02-05-2013 at 06:36 AM.

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    They will probably put them in the store eventually, as they did with the Summer chest and International chest items. Valve has to create a balance between compensating item creators by immediately putting the items into the store and pleasing the people who bought keys for these chests. If these items are immediately put into the store, what is the point of these people buying keys to open these chests? For the Diretide/Frostivus chests, maybe, since those have tags. However, the Dark Implements Treasure Chest had items that did not have any tags whatsoever. Keeping the items out of stores for a month or two gives people a reason to actually open these chests.

    I remember when most of the summer chest items went on sale almost the week after the chests expired. A lot of people were really disappointed.

  7. #7
    Basic Member ned_ballad's Avatar
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    None of the chest items cost less than the 2.50 paid for the key, so opening crates gives you a bargain on potentially expensive items

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    Quote Originally Posted by ned_ballad View Post
    None of the chest items cost less than the 2.50 paid for the key, so opening crates gives you a bargain on potentially expensive items
    Not really how it works. In terms of market value right now, a key is worth 7-8 rares, 20 uncommons or 50 commons. Yes, you can buy a key for $2.50 and then get 7 rares "worth" $4+ each for that one key.

    Market value does not really correlate with store value that much. As soon as the special items are put in the store, they become worth exponentially less.

  9. #9
    Basic Member ned_ballad's Avatar
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    Valve doesn't make direct money from "market value" and contributors make 0 money from "market value"

    I am coming 100% personally on this. I want the Lantern of Death's Last Light. I want to pay money for this item. I don't want to fiddle around with trading. I have money to spend and I feel frustrated that I can't give my money to the person who made the item. And it doesn't have to do with "market value." Further, all the items from Diretide and before randomly drop, meaning their value isn't very high anyway. It's just lost money all around.

    Valve does this with crate items to try and stir up key sales. The thought is, keys are worth less in money than the item itself, meaning it's a wise investment to open the crate. It's also an exclusive period of a month or so where you can show off the item, and nobody else can easily get it. This is the thought process behind TF2 crates, and I'm going to assume the same applies to Dota.

    Valve keeps "market value" in their minds, but they don't let it come before contributor profits, and their own direct profits. This seems like more they forgot to add these, or wanted to add them in a large batch (like they did previously), but we're getting to an awkward period where these items are getting kind of old (and they drop) and also previous items with no competition, now have competition with store items (like Warlock/Necro/TA) and I think that's a little unfair they're now backseat and will never get a fair chance to make the most money via their own merits, versus a random gamble which is not based on the quality or desire of their item at all.

    Coming from TF2, this has happened before. There was a themed crate in November, and they just forgot to add the items to the store until someone (*coughme*) kindly reminded them a couple months later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ned_ballad View Post
    Valve doesn't make direct money from "market value" and contributors make 0 money from "market value"

    I am coming 100% personally on this. I want the Lantern of Death's Last Light. I want to pay money for this item. I don't want to fiddle around with trading. I have money to spend and I feel frustrated that I can't give my money to the person who made the item. And it doesn't have to do with "market value." Further, all the items from Diretide and before randomly drop, meaning their value isn't very high anyway. It's just lost money all around.

    Valve does this with crate items to try and stir up key sales. The thought is, keys are worth less in money than the item itself, meaning it's a wise investment to open the crate. It's also an exclusive period of a month or so where you can show off the item, and nobody else can easily get it. This is the thought process behind TF2 crates, and I'm going to assume the same applies to Dota.

    Valve keeps "market value" in their minds, but they don't let it come before contributor profits, and their own direct profits. This seems like more they forgot to add these, or wanted to add them in a large batch (like they did previously), but we're getting to an awkward period where these items are getting kind of old (and they drop) and also previous items with no competition, now have competition with store items (like Warlock/Necro/TA) and I think that's a little unfair they're now backseat and will never get a fair chance to make the most money via their own merits, versus a random gamble which is not based on the quality or desire of their item at all.

    Coming from TF2, this has happened before. There was a themed crate in November, and they just forgot to add the items to the store until someone (*coughme*) kindly reminded them a couple months later.
    Direct money, no.

    But... if they piss off the people who buy the special event keys, they will lose a ton of profit. Valve hasn't released any real summary of where the majority of their purchases come from, but I can pretty accurately guess that they experience a huge increase in revenue when they have special event chests - there is a huge incentive to buy keys and items during these events. If Valve makes it a point to release items right after the chests expire, I can almost guarantee you that their profits will go waaaaaay down, because people will not be incentivized to buy keys.

    Market value directly influences "direct" profits. It's also worth noting that a lot of the popular items that come from these chests are valued through keys. For example, the Pudge 'stache was worth ~10 keys when the Frostivus (was it Frostivus? I think it was) chests came out. Where do you think people get these keys from? That's right, they buy them from Valve.

    I'm not saying that chest items shouldn't be put into store, far from it. I just think that Valve is right in waiting one or two months before doing so. And really, Valve is a company that is pretty good at paying attention to detail. I highly doubt that they forgot to put items into the store.
    Last edited by MrNiceGuy; 02-05-2013 at 09:01 PM.

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