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Thread: Show skill range on hotkey use, not only on mouse-over.

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamRael View Post
    Hmm, what do you think about a possible compromise such as this:

    During the first 15 times (the number can change) you play a certain hero, the range indicators for that hero skills will be shown, then afterwards they will be hidden.

    What do you think?
    I guess my argument comes back to "What is lost by just having unlimited access to range indicators". I mean, if what we lose a subset of the community who's 'Game is ruined!' because range indicators exist, good riddance. sure, it can feel exciting when the Pudge hook just barely snags your opponent and there is a certain kind of satisfaction from using abilities at max range, but the trade-off between those kind of experiences and having what I would consider a objectively better game with a smoother learning curve and better information presentation, isn't worth it.

  2. #112
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    To be an succesfull e-sport there should be the requirements of skill and knowledge. Making it an oversimplified game won't do it any good as e-sport. Why should we make the game easier exactly, because you want it?
    There already tons of people playing Dota for a long time so why not focus on them?

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbonator View Post
    To be an succesfull e-sport there should be the requirements of skill and knowledge. Making it an oversimplified game won't do it any good as e-sport. Why should we make the game easier exactly, because you want it?
    There already tons of people playing Dota for a long time so why not focus on them?
    Don't confuse issues pertaining to 'quality of life' with mechanics that require skill. Starcraft II is still an incredibly competitive e-sport despite making several quality of life changes for the better from Starcraft I that a lot of the community swore would make the game too easy (It's not an easy game). The reason why it's not an easy game is not because you need to jump through the UI hopes in order to do whatever it is you want (Re: 12 unit max/group), but because the depth is in the gameplay and the skill ceiling is achieved through said gameplay, not through an unintuitive UI. The SCII UI is among the most friendly in the RTS genre and it's still an incredibly difficult game to become great at because the core of the gameplay is so well designed.

    Also, for the 9th time in this thread, if the argument hinges of "It's going to make my game easier", it's a piss-poor argument to began with because we could do all sorts of bad things to the UI that would inflate the 'skill-ceiling' into the stratosphere but in doing so, you make a game that's unfun, inaccessible, and frustrating.

    If your game needs to have ridiculous UI constraints to be competitive, then your game sucks. That's the long and short of it. If you are worried that somehow Dota 2 will become less competitive with a better UI, then Dota 2 is not worth being competitive in the first place.

  4. #114
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    DOWNRIGHT NO! At least not for a proper game, in practice games it could possibly be given as an option.
    Implementing it in a ranked game would ruin the game itself, it's similar to asking them "Hey can you tell me which skills should I use? and when? You know what give me a step by step instruction on how to play every game, as skill shouldn't matter in DotA."
    Part of being a "pro" DotA player is to know how far you are from casting hook/arrow/or any spell. Consider this scenario, if you are escaping a gank and have blink wouldn't it be a noobish mistake if you blinked in just short of a platform which you thought was in range and instead blinked just under it which results in you dying. What I'm trying to prove is that it wouldn't differentiate pros who have spent countless hours on this game just to see max hook/blink/arrow range from the newbies or not so skilled players who may think range is within reach but it's actually not. It's not only making it easier or improving quality of life this is changing the whole gameplay the second or so that matters from your hero dying/living.

    One thing I'd like to point out is Why does it take about 2 seconds to see your skills range? So that the range indicator can't be used quickly in battle/pressure situations as it would ruin the gameplay!

    And all those on about "Learning Curve" should play practice games where this range indicator may be implemented. Making the learning curve easier for DotA would ruin what it's been built on for the past 7 years, what people, who have been addicted or so eager to come play it again and again, is one of the reasons they come back to the game.
    Last edited by DocBoss; 12-07-2011 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #115
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    I actually disagree to this, i like feeling out heroes on my own. A charater feels more unique to you when you know every little detail through experience then rather be shown by the game itself. A big reason i enjoy shadowfiend is because i feel rewarded when using his abilities for making correct judgements. Visual aids arent neccesary imo.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBoss View Post
    DOWNRIGHT NO! At least not for a proper game, in practice games it could possibly be given as an option.
    Implementing it in a ranked game would ruin the game itself, it's similar to asking them "Hey can you tell me which skills should I use? and when? You know what give me a step by step instruction on how to play every game, as skill shouldn't matter in DotA."
    Part of being a "pro" DotA player is to know how far you are from casting hook/arrow/or any spell. Consider this scenario, if you are escaping a gank and have blink wouldn't it be a noobish mistake if you blinked in just short of a platform which you thought was in range and instead blinked just under it which results in you dying. What I'm trying to prove is that it wouldn't differentiate pros who have spent countless hours on this game just to see max hook/blink/arrow range from the newbies or not so skilled players who may think range is within reach but it's actually not. It's not only making it easier or improving quality of life this is changing the whole gameplay the second or so that matters from your hero dying/living.

    One thing I'd like to point out is Why does it take about 2 seconds to see your skills range? So that the range indicator can't be used quickly in battle/pressure situations as it would ruin the gameplay!

    And all those on about "Learning Curve" should play practice games where this range indicator may be implemented. Making the learning curve easier for DotA would ruin what it's been built on for the past 7 years, what people, who have been addicted or so eager to come play it again and again, is one of the reasons they come back to the game.
    Also, for the 9th time in this thread, if the argument hinges of "It's going to make my game easier", it's a piss-poor argument to began with because we could do all sorts of bad things to the UI that would inflate the 'skill-ceiling' into the stratosphere but in doing so, you make a game that's unfun, inaccessible, and frustrating.

    If your game needs to have ridiculous UI constraints to be competitive, then your game sucks. That's the long and short of it. If you are worried that somehow Dota 2 will become less competitive with a better UI, then Dota 2 is not worth being competitive in the first place.
    .

  7. #117
    Basic Member hsdvo's Avatar
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    Anyone play ssbm here?

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsdvo View Post
    Anyone play ssbm here?
    Absolutely. Tis' the reason to own a GC in my opinion. Go go analogies.

  9. #119
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    I think auto-lasthit should be implemented, so annoying have to right click all those creeps.

  10. #120
    Basic Member glohkamp's Avatar
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    For those saying this change will make the game easier for players, you're kind of right. It will lessen the learning curve slightly, and increase the skill of newer players. However, it will not affect the overall skill cap. Good players will still be good, but bad players won't be absolutely terrible because they don't know the range of their spells. If you don't like it, personally, then don't use it. But I think we've all had a pug (or more) that really could have used something like this to improve their gameplay and making them not as annoying to be matched with.

    I agree with the spell radius being accessible as possible, with options to toggle it off if you don't need it or feel it clutters up the game, or are just a purist.

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