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Thread: Show skill range on hotkey use, not only on mouse-over.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kautzman View Post
    This is such an awful argument.

    The depth of the game should be in it's mechanics, not in it's UI. Crippling a UI in the name of raising the skill ceiling is an awful idea. Can one present a reasonable argument for the exclusive of a targeting circle besides "It will make it easier"? By this logic, wouldn't it also be a good idea to only allow movement via typing in coordinates instead of allowing mouse control? It would be harder and raise the skill ceiling a great degree! Mouse control is what LoL does and it ruins my game because it makes it easier!

    One should be able to interact with the UI in such a way that it feels 'effortless', so that there is no barrier between the user's actions and the user's intended actions. That should be the end goal of UI design. Obscuring information (Lack of Damage Text, Lack of meaningful range finders), Excluding information (Lack of Cast bars), and other such nonsense should be checked at the door as it has no place in a modern UI. There is a time and place for some UI restrictions (Limited field of view, non-adjustable camera angle), but those are pretty special cases for very specific reasons.
    This man speaks the truth. +1 this.

  2. #22
    Basic Member Chrys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kautzman View Post
    This is such an awful argument.

    The depth of the game should be in it's mechanics, not in it's UI. Crippling a UI in the name of raising the skill ceiling is an awful idea. Can one present a reasonable argument for the exclusive of a targeting circle besides "It will make it easier"? By this logic, wouldn't it also be a good idea to only allow movement via typing in coordinates instead of allowing mouse control? It would be harder and raise the skill ceiling a great degree! Mouse control is what LoL does and it ruins my game because it makes it easier!

    One should be able to interact with the UI in such a way that it feels 'effortless', so that there is no barrier between the user's actions and the user's intended actions. That should be the end goal of UI design. Obscuring information (Lack of Damage Text, Lack of meaningful range finders), Excluding information (Lack of Cast bars), and other such nonsense should be checked at the door as it has no place in a modern UI. There is a time and place for some UI restrictions (Limited field of view, non-adjustable camera angle), but those are pretty special cases for very specific reasons.
    Usually I'd agree with you especially when it comes to things like Cast bars, Ally Mana Bars and Ally Cooldown timers.

    However, range circles do more than make the game easier, they take away that uncertainty of "I'm not entirely sure if it'll hit so I have to try anyway". Many a great hooks / arrows / powershots / fissures were had because of that uncertainty. I'd be fine with experimenting with it for some things but in general I wouldn't like to see it standardized and done to the same level League of Legends does it (and no, it's not because LoL does it).

  3. #23
    Agreed with ^
    +1 for this

  4. #24
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    So how about Magina? If he exceeds max blinking range, he gets teleported only 75 % of the distance. With range indicator, it would never happen. What will be the next step? Adding enemies mana bars and cooldowns too so you'll have it easier? Disable fog of war?

  5. #25
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    i guess it would be very cool

  6. #26
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    +1

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zikato View Post
    So how about Magina? If he exceeds max blinking range, he gets teleported only 75 % of the distance. With range indicator, it would never happen. What will be the next step? Adding enemies mana bars and cooldowns too so you'll have it easier? Disable fog of war?
    You frame this is as though it's a good mechanic. Rewarding a player for good aim, clever use of CC or great map awareness are good mechanics. Rewarding a player because they can 'feel' 550 hammer units when there is no real indication of the what that actually means is a really mediocre means of creating a skill cap. I mean, imagine how difficult it would be to make decisions in combat if you didn't see HP bars; lets say the only information you are given is items + stats, so those with the biggest of neckbeards could still calculate in some way, the max HP of a given character, and if you pay careful attention and know how much damage abilities do, you could also calculate how much damage they've taken, ending with you knowing how much life they have left. How godawful does that sound? HP Bars are to Damage as Range Indicators are to Abilities. Because certain abilities exist that reward seasoned veterans for simply being seasoned veterans does not excuse the fact that it's still a terrible mechanic.

    Also: bind z "incrementvar dota_range_display 550 700"

    Fog of War serves as tactical purpose. Wards, map control, and map awareness are pieces that make Fog of War a very strategic mechanic. Enemy cooldowns fall under the category of "meta-meta-information" and as such, aren't nearly as necessary as say, seeing your own cooldowns or damage text. I think you could also make the argument that trying to make a HUD that displays everyone's CDs without information overload would be quite difficult, so it also presents a UI design issue.

    Enemy mana bars are something I take issue with but I'll write up my concerns with that later.

    Edit: I also want to say this. Arguing for something because, "That's the way it always was" is also really awful. Constantly thinking critically about a UI and asking "What can be better? What is the worst element of this UI" are pretty important in my little fantasy land.
    Last edited by Kautzman; 11-27-2011 at 09:51 AM.

  8. #28
    Basic Member jna's Avatar
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    hmm, nothing wrong with this i think its a great addition.

  9. #29
    +1

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxniaoxd View Post
    agreed with this, but 1 more suggestion for this function is, you can turn on and turn off this because somebody will don't like it
    Great idea, I'd like this implemented as well.

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