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Thread: Bot usefulness tier list

  1. #121
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    In the current files, Lina is not listed as providing setup, apparently needs farm, and is only given the ganker tag. I am not sure I agree that she's mid tier usefulness. She usually feeds in the games I see.

    I'm going to give her the support tags which she should have (all of them), and see if this changes her performance when she's picked (ie, actually use her stuns in lane when on full mana or use dragon slave to push!). Her skill and item build seems fine to me (except that energy booster should go before boots, arguably).

    edit: not surprisingly, when she is picked as a pure/push/stun support she does well. I am not sure if specifying that she can provide setup changes how she plays, but it did seem that in these games she was throwing way more stuns and generally being useful rather than feeding (using stuns to set up allies and save them equally, and also some key uses of dust as well).
    Last edited by cinephile; 03-22-2013 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peachrocks View Post
    I have seen Drow and Sniper draw too much creep agro I do remember you saying that, I'm more thinking of Viper I guess. I'll need to pay closer attention to it regarding him. I must say though the biggest problem I have with the bots is the fact they get underfarmed in lane and then proceed to suicide attack and feed even more... Bonus points if they attempt a suicide attack while one of their team is dead and the others have full numbers.
    Well obviously Drow and Viper have Orb attacks that allow them to avoid it. Of course, Viper has a cooldown on it till 5, but I've found that usually he doesn't commit to harassment like Drow or Sniper, so usually he'll only attack once or twice, drawing minimal creep aggro thanks to his 1st Orb attack.
    In Drow's case I usually find she completely empties her mana pool casting pointless silences and then has no mana left to cast her Frost Arrows, resulting in her constantly pulling creep aggro.
    I've personally moved her silence up to lvl 8. It's a bit late, but it hurts her so much during the laning phase because of how stupid she is with casting it. I've only seen her once since I moved it up though so I'm not sure how it has affected her.

  3. #123
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    Ahh I never knew that you could avoid creep agro like that... Not so obvious to me :P. Guess my newishness is still showing somewhat.

    Honestly as for Drow's silence, she hardly uses remotely intelligently until past level 11 where she just casts it into a lump of people which is moderately effective. Otherwise she spams it uselessly. For her and Death Prophet I'd have them delay silence til level 10 after upgrading the other skills.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peachrocks View Post
    Ahh I never knew that you could avoid creep agro like that... Not so obvious to me :P. Guess my newishness is still showing somewhat.

    Honestly as for Drow's silence, she hardly uses remotely intelligently until past level 11 where she just casts it into a lump of people which is moderately effective. Otherwise she spams it uselessly. For her and Death Prophet I'd have them delay silence til level 10 after upgrading the other skills.
    The aura isn't worth much for Drow early on anyhow, and in case Drow has a bad game it's best she has it a bit early still.
    But indeed, the bots are best off not having the silence until they stop laning. It's somewhat similar to WD, whom I've moved his heal to 21-25 to just because all he uses it for is pointlessly burning his entire mana pool.

  5. #125
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    From what I have seen of Death Prophet she spams her silence really effectively (and it costs nothing so long as you max E, which I think is optimal anyway).

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinephile View Post
    From what I have seen of Death Prophet she spams her silence really effectively (and it costs nothing so long as you max E, which I think is optimal anyway).
    She spams her silence effectively post-laning phase. They'll cast it on enemies the instant they engage, which indeed if you're actually engaging is a good thing. But most often during the laning phase, heroes just walk away from DP and she just wasted a silence on nothing. This is similar with Drow Ranger, where she'll cast it as soon as she engages, and by the time she's done casting they're out of range. If she'd just fire a Frost Arrow before casting Silence it'd be a lot better.
    In DPs case though, as she has no ways to keep a hero down, she should really only cast it if they're A) in a team fight B) the enemy is engaging on her rather than the other way around

  7. #127
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    This is probably the best thread to make a mention of it:

    Jakiro's Ring of Basilius isn't marked as a sellable item.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arxos View Post
    This is probably the best thread to make a mention of it:

    Jakiro's Ring of Basilius isn't marked as a sellable item.
    I think that is because in his default build he doesn't fill his inventory with items and/or his wand is marked as sellable - so there's no need to sell it.

    At any rate, he's kind of odd right now. I changed his build to max liquid fire after one level of ice path for lane harass, but he doesn't really use it very often (even when playing the pure support role), or not how a babysitter should anyway.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinephile View Post
    I think that is because in his default build he doesn't fill his inventory with items and/or his wand is marked as sellable - so there's no need to sell it.

    At any rate, he's kind of odd right now. I changed his build to max liquid fire after one level of ice path for lane harass, but he doesn't really use it very often (even when playing the pure support role), or not how a babysitter should anyway.
    The default order doesn't create the situation, but when I changed the order a little it led to a situation where he wouldn't finish his last item as he didn't have the space to go to the Secret Shop.
    But regardless of that, 50+m into the game it's really not worth it to not get a TP scroll because you got a Ring of Basilius, or at the very least upgrade it to a Ring of Aquila if you insist on keeping it.
    Hence, I more so imagine it was just a mistake.

    And well, I personally really don't like early Liquid Fire build, it's too situational, and even then it's not that amazing compared to the default build.

  10. #130
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    Luna does not help setup teamfights or even stun properly: When stun is on cooldown and chasing a hero in range she does not use it. Same with DK. Same with Tiny.

    Tiny seems to never use Toss. Needs a revamp of its AI.

    Dragonknight never uses stuns appropriately. He just throws it out there wasting it.

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