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Thread: [Confirmed] Outworld Devourer & int gain from astral imprisonment

  1. #1
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    [Confirmed] Outworld Devourer & int gain from astral imprisonment

    Well you fixed OD's enemies losing enough mana, but didn't fix OD gaining enough. If I understand correctly, OD's difference between his mana after casting, and his full mana pool should be the same (i.e. NOT percentage, you add 13 on each time you get 1 int off an enemy), assuming his aura doesn't proc.

    This probably requires you guys to apply the same thing in reverse for OD

    Awaiting typhox to make this thread more epic.

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    Yes, still wrong is mana-gain on OD, mana-loss on OD (after the buff runs out) and mana-loss on the enemy (after the buff runs out). As an OD player, I'm happy like this currently (in DotA 1 that mechanic was able to refill an oom enemy completely). They should just save the stolen mana with the buff and give it back after the buff ran out. So when OD steals 20 mana from you, you don't get 130 mana after the buff runs out, but only the 20 you lost. Maybe should also make the stolen mana to be actually stolen. Afaik improving the mechanic in DotA 1 like this is not possible or at least not easily (because it is an unintended side effect of the int-steal mechanic).

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    Basic Member adrianlegg's Avatar
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    Confirmed with vids! since I already reserved some time for tonight.

    lvl1 OD with lvl1 AI (120 manacost)
    dota2: 142 - 120 + int_mana(??) -> 25
    dota1: 144 - 120 + int_mana(52) -> 76

    dota2:


    dota1:
    Last edited by adrianlegg; 03-06-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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    Basic Member lorin's Avatar
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    confirmed, +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Yes, still wrong is mana-gain on OD, mana-loss on OD (after the buff runs out) and mana-loss on the enemy (after the buff runs out). As an OD player, I'm happy like this currently (in DotA 1 that mechanic was able to refill an oom enemy completely). They should just save the stolen mana with the buff and give it back after the buff ran out. So when OD steals 20 mana from you, you don't get 130 mana after the buff runs out, but only the 20 you lost. Maybe should also make the stolen mana to be actually stolen. Afaik improving the mechanic in DotA 1 like this is not possible or at least not easily (because it is an unintended side effect of the int-steal mechanic).
    Lol :P I don't think it matters that you're happy, I'd be more happy if it was correct

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    Update Notes - March 6, 2013
    03/06/13

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyn-Ryder View Post
    Lol :P I don't think it matters that you're happy, I'd be more happy if it was correct
    I leave that for the devs to decide.

  8. #8
    Basic Member ThoAppelsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
    Yes, still wrong is mana-gain on OD, mana-loss on OD (after the buff runs out) and mana-loss on the enemy (after the buff runs out). As an OD player, I'm happy like this currently (in DotA 1 that mechanic was able to refill an oom enemy completely). They should just save the stolen mana with the buff and give it back after the buff ran out. So when OD steals 20 mana from you, you don't get 130 mana after the buff runs out, but only the 20 you lost. Maybe should also make the stolen mana to be actually stolen. Afaik improving the mechanic in DotA 1 like this is not possible or at least not easily (because it is an unintended side effect of the int-steal mechanic).
    This is just completely wrong.
    - Astral Imprisonment debuff appliance substracts 52/78/104/130 mana from both Max and Current MP. This is the only change they have made.
    - Astral Imprisonment debuff removal adds 52/78/104/130 mana to the Max MP only, while keeping the Current:Max MP ratio constant.

    - Astral Imprisonment buff aspect is also fully untouched.
    - For an additional note, the order of events is like this: Destroyer casts Astral Imprisonment > Manacost (120/140/160/180) substracted from the Current MP > 52/78/104/130 mana added to the Max MP > Current MP gets scaled to keep the ratio


    There is no such thing like "store the substracted amount of mana, and add only that much after the buff gets removed". They are not that so advanced. You probably had thought that there is such a thing, because you wished that there was such a thing...
    Also, call it improvement/tweak, whatever you want, that is just a balance suggestion.
    Biased approach... Kills proper reporting/fixing of bugs...

    Man I am so full of hate right now. You were so angry about this being bugged all this time. It is still bugged, and you say "I am happy", just because this time the bug is benefical to your beloved hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
    There is no such thing like "store the substracted amount of mana, and add only that much after the buff gets removed". They are not that so advanced. You probably had thought that there is such a thing, because you wished that there was such a thing...
    Exactly what I wrote. Learn 2 read.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
    Also, call it improvement/tweak, whatever you want, that is just a balance suggestion.
    A balance change that can not be made in DotA 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
    Man I am so full of hate right now. You were so angry about this being bugged all this time. It is still bugged, and you say "I am happy", just because this time the bug is benefical to your beloved hero.
    No, I wasn't angry about this being bugged, in fact, I knew of this bug since November. The reason why I didn't report it was that I know Valve fixes everything where OD is in an advantage and leaves every bug where he is on a disadvantage. I spent 4 months evaluating if OD is better with the new behaviour or with the old behaviour. Keep in mind that Astral Imprisonment is already nerfed pretty drastically by fixing that WC3 engine limitation that causes units under the effect of AI to not get triggered XP (from denies for example).

    Let me see, what did you do to find this bug? Oh right, nothing! Good job!

  10. #10
    Basic Member adrianlegg's Avatar
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    There's no reason for hatred. And who said it "couldn't be done" in dota1?

    The thing is :
    1) in dota1 AI manipulates base int, not mana.
    2) everything in dota1 obeys: changing base stats changes hp/mana by flat value
    For what You want Typhox, AI should either be about "int and mana steal"(redundant), or to change 2nd rule. Personally I dislike both.

    Maybe it sux when enemy from 50/300 becomes 0/170 and 130/300, but that's dota.
    It seems inconsistent only because in dota2 You have "base_stats - stolen", while in dota1, You have only final value, and no debuff icon at all, so it's almost like You would "gain" this int.

    As per topic I don't know why in dota2 almost every stat change by default is "keeping ratio", which made exact same bug for every stat-changing-skill there was (undy 1vs3 in hardlane like a boss) and still exists for such basic stuff as hp/mana gain from lvlup.
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