Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 73

Thread: [Feedback] Bot Item Build Changes (still WIP)

  1. #1
    Basic Member DarkLite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Patch Anticipation Station
    Posts
    3,919

    [Feedback] Bot Item Build Changes (still WIP)

    Suggested builds are included as code. Agility and Int will follow up in subsequent posts. Feedback over the suggested builds below is totally welcome and I'll update the OP with changes as more people weigh in. Also, I'm not particularly happy with my DK build (feel like I need HotD / Satanic in there but can't see where; perhaps ditch AC?). If anyone wants to suggest better builds that's fine, theorycrafting galore is welcome.

    Strength
    Earthshaker:
    Thoughts: Finishing Bracer after Arcanes and Blink doesn't make a lot of sense. Since he's not got a high farm priority, by the time he gets to finishing Bracer there won't be much point. Going straight from that to Sheepstick also seems a bit odd; Veil, Scepter and Shiva are all things that I think would make a lot more sense,
    Suggestion: Move circlet / recipe before Boots or between Boots and Energy Booster. Add Veil after Blink, then Shiva / Scepter as Luxuries.
    Suggested Build:
    Code:
    		"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_flask"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_gauntlets"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_circlet"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_bracer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_bracer"					"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_energy_booster"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_arcane_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_blink"					"ITEM_CORE"
    
    				"item_helm_of_iron_will"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_robe"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_veil_of_discord"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_veil_of_discord"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_platemail"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_mystic_staff"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_shivas_guard"		"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_shivas_guard"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_void_stone"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_ultimate_orb"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_mystic_staff"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_sheepstick"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_point_booster"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_ogre_axe"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_staff_of_wizardry"		"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_blade_of_alacrity"		"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_ultimate_scepter"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    Sven:
    Thoughts: He's getting AC to make up for his lack of attack speed; but if the bots know how to use Mask of Madness that would be a lot better.
    Suggestions: MoM before BKB, move AC to Luxury, add Daedalus as Extension. Depends if bots can use MoM though.
    Suggested Build:
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_flask"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_stick"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_magic_wand"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_wand"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_belt_of_strength"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_gloves"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_power_treads"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_lifesteal"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_mask_of_madness"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_mask_of_madness"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_ogre_axe"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_mithril_hammer"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_black_king_bar"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_black_king_bar"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_broadsword"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_lesser_crit"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_lesser_crit"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_demon_edge"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_greater_crit"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_greater_crit"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_platemail"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_hyperstone"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_chainmail"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_assault"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_assault"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_blink"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    			}
    Tiny:
    Thoughts: With Heart and Sheepstick I feel like Tiny can't decide what to go for. If he's going support, then Drums -> Sheep makes a lot more sense. If not, Scepter / MoM and all that.
    Suggestion: Decide whether the Tiny bot's mainly going to be playing as support or carry, and give him a build accordingly.
    Suggested Build:
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_stick"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_magic_wand"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_wand"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_bottle"					"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_energy_booster"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_arcane_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_blink"					"ITEM_CORE"
    
    				"item_gauntlets"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_circlet"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_bracer"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_bracer"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_robe"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_ancient_janggo"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ancient_janggo"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    
    				"item_mystic_staff"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_void_stone"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_ultimate_orb"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_sheepstick"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    OR:
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_stick"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_magic_wand"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_wand"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_bottle"					"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_energy_booster"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_arcane_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_blink"					"ITEM_CORE"
    
    				"item_lifesteal"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_mask_of_madness"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_mask_of_madness"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_point_booster"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_staff_of_wizardry"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_blade_of_alacrity"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ogre_axe"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ultimate_scepter"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_mithril_hammer"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ogre_axe"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_black_king_bar"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_black_king_bar"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_vitality_booster"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_reaver"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_heart"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_heart"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    Kunkka:
    Thoughts: It's a lot better than it used to be (goodbye bfury!), but it's still not great. The one thing Kunkka has no need of is attack speed. As a one-on-one melee attacker, he's subpar at best. He deals magic and splash damage, and his ult gives him 50% damage resistance so he doesn't need to tank anyway. The -armor on AC is even more pointless, because Tidebringer splash isn't affected by armor.
    Suggestions: Swap Treads for Phase. He's got to run through the mess of Torrented / Boated units to get to the enemies, he's got to run in and out for a Tidebringer hit, and phase gives the most damage. It's what Kunkka needs most. Adding Shadow Blade after Phase would be nice, but it'd require special coding for Kunkka so he knows to use it to *initiate* for the +150 splash damage. Get rid of Assault Cuirass. I'd say replace it with another Daedalus since that improves his crit chance (25% -> 43.75%, if one doesn't trigger the next one has a chance to) and what he really needs is a crit on that Tidebringer hit, but feel free to disagree there.
    Suggested Build:
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_tango"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"						"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"						"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"						"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_stick"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_magic_wand"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_wand"					"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_gauntlets"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_circlet"						"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_bracer"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_bracer"					"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    
    				"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_phase_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_broadsword"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_lesser_crit"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_lesser_crit"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_demon_edge"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_greater_crit"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_greater_crit"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				
    				"item_ogre_axe"						"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_mithril_hammer"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_black_king_bar"		"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_black_king_bar"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_broadsword"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_lesser_crit"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_lesser_crit"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_demon_edge"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_greater_crit"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_greater_crit"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_vitality_booster"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_reaver"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_heart"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_heart"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    Tidehunter:
    Thoughts: I really dislike this one. Treads? Tide doesn't need the HP, attack speed or strength, and mana boots help him support a lot more. Heart and AC after Blink? Why not something that's a lot more useful like Drums or Refresher or Shiva's Guard? Arcanes give him the mana to fuel a double ult (arcanes -> refresh -> arcanes, might need to check if the bots know how to do this), and Shiva's gives him some more AOE afterwards.
    Suggestions: Replace Treads with Arcanes. Replace Heart and AC with Refresher and Shiva's.
    Suggested Build:
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"				"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"				"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"	
    				"item_branches"				"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"				"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_gauntlets"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_circlet"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_bracer"		"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_bracer"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_boots"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_energy_booster"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_arcane_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_blink"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    
    				"item_void_stone"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ring_of_health"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_pers"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_sobi_mask"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_robe"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_quarterstaff"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_oblivion_staff"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_recipe_refresher"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_refresher"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				
    				"item_platemail"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_mystic_staff"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_shivas_guard"		"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_shivas_guard"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    Chaos Knight:
    No complaints here!

    Skeleton King:
    Thoughts: He gets BKB a bit late compared to the rest of his build and builds excessively for tankiness (heart + bkb + AC). Given his ult, he can afford to make some sacrifices in the name of damage.
    Suggestions: Swap Treads for Phase. Phase gives him more damage for his crit, but more importantly it lets him run through units in the way to get to whoever he's stunned. This could be quite important in a teamfight. Add Desolator after Armlet and move BKB before Heart.
    Suggested Build:
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_flask"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_quelling_blade"			"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_magic_stick"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_magic_wand"		"ITEM_CORE"		
    				"item_magic_wand"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"		
    				"item_blades_of_attack"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_blades_of_attack"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_phase_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_ring_of_regen"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_sobi_mask"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_soul_ring"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_soul_ring"				"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_helm_of_iron_will"		"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_gloves"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_blades_of_attack"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_armlet"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_armlet"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_mithril_hammer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_mithril_hammer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_desolator"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_desolator"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_ogre_axe"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_mithril_hammer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_black_king_bar"	"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_black_king_bar"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_reaver"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_vitality_booster"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_heart"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_heart"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    				"item_platemail"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_hyperstone"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_chainmail"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_assault"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_assault"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_belt_of_strength"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_javelin"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_basher"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_basher"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_relic"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_abyssal_blade"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    Dragon Knight:
    Thoughts: Soul Ring would be good early with the points in Dragon Blood he gets. He also doesn't have any crits and doesn't finish Mjollnir. Daedalus is particularly good on DK because the crits splash.
    Suggestion: Add Soul Ring early on. Finish Mjollnir straight after Maelstrom. Add Daedalus after BKB, move AC to Luxury.
    Code:
    			"Loadout"
    			{
    				"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_clarity"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_quelling_blade"			"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_gauntlets"				"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_circlet"					"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_recipe_bracer"			"ITEM_CORE"
    				"item_bracer"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_belt_of_strength"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_gloves"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_treads"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_robe"						"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_ancient_janggo"	"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ancient_janggo"			"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    				"item_gloves"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_mithril_hammer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_maelstrom"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_maelstrom"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_mithril_hammer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_ogre_axe"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_black_king_bar"	"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_black_king_bar"			"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_platemail"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_hyperstone"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_chainmail"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_recipe_assault"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    				"item_assault"					"ITEM_DERIVED"				
    				"item_hyperstone"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_mjollnir"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_mjollnir"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    				"item_reaver"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_vitality_booster"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_recipe_heart"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    				"item_heart"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    			}
    Last edited by DarkLite; 03-13-2013 at 04:54 PM.
    Please help keep the forums clean by reporting rude or abusive posts!
    Got a problem? PM me or another moderator!
    Forum Rules


  2. #2
    Basic Member squinte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bronson, Missouri
    Posts
    664
    With Veil of Discord being added to the bot item list I wouldn't mind seeing Earthshaker buy it once he gets Blink Dagger. Drum of Endurance is practical most of the time for both survivability and build up, so maybe add a Veil after that? I still think he needs to remove the useless single branch from his item build, adding just a Magic Stick in its absence.

    Edit: I think if the bot is going to farm an aghs, he should skip the Sheepstick, maybe the Shiva's too. Aghs + Veil is pretty big crushing blow if he hits a 5 man echo slam with creeps + Veil debuff. Otherwise, I think Shiva's is probably the best bet, cheaper build up to Sheepstick and plays into his hands of blink initiating more so than a hex does.
    Last edited by squinte; 03-13-2013 at 04:58 PM.
    This ain't ova.

  3. #3
    Basic Member DarkLite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Patch Anticipation Station
    Posts
    3,919
    Quote Originally Posted by squinte View Post
    With Veil of Discord being added to the bot item list I wouldn't mind seeing Earthshaker buy it once he gets Blink Dagger. Drum of Endurance is practical most of the time for both survivability and build up, so maybe add a Veil after that? I still think he needs to remove the useless single branch from his item build, adding just a Magic Stick in its absence.
    Agree on the branch, missed that. Stripped it out now. What are your thoughts on him getting an early Soul Ring instead of Wand / ten million clarities?

    edit: and the suggested build I've got up there has him get Veil after Blink.
    Please help keep the forums clean by reporting rude or abusive posts!
    Got a problem? PM me or another moderator!
    Forum Rules


  4. #4
    Basic Member squinte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bronson, Missouri
    Posts
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post
    Agree on the branch, missed that. Stripped it out now. What are your thoughts on him getting an early Soul Ring instead of Wand / ten million clarities?

    edit: and the suggested build I've got up there has him get Veil after Blink.
    Soul Ring can be worthwhile. With ES bot, who doesn't get much farm, having another item between boots and Blink Dagger and we might never see him get Blink. Maybe test out how well he can do it and give results? also, don't build the wand, just the magic stick. his farm can't support getting a full wand, and generally just the stick should suffice.
    This ain't ova.

  5. #5
    Basic Member DarkLite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Patch Anticipation Station
    Posts
    3,919
    Quote Originally Posted by squinte View Post
    Soul Ring can be worthwhile. With ES bot, who doesn't get much farm, having another item between boots and Blink Dagger and we might never see him get Blink. Maybe test out how well he can do it and give results?
    Yeah, good idea, I'll go test it now. What are your thoughts on Omni's build, by the way? He goes Soul Ring -> Arcanes -> mek -> pipe -> AC -> Sheep -> Heart. Personally my thoughts are that he'd be better off with Drum or Vlads before Pipe. Possibly Refresher orb as an endgame luxury?
    Please help keep the forums clean by reporting rude or abusive posts!
    Got a problem? PM me or another moderator!
    Forum Rules


  6. #6
    Basic Member squinte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bronson, Missouri
    Posts
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post
    Yeah, good idea, I'll go test it now. What are your thoughts on Omni's build, by the way? He goes Soul Ring -> Arcanes -> mek -> pipe -> AC -> Sheep -> Heart. Personally my thoughts are that he'd be better off with Drum or Vlads before Pipe. Possibly Refresher orb as an endgame luxury?
    Not really my place lol, I basically play him as a Repel bitch for our Huskar player, but outside of that I generally don't play him at all. I usually went for that type of build, or played Soul Ring > Arcanes > Force Staff (Because I need to get my team mates out of sticky situations, IE: Huskar jump into a group of enemies, get chain stunned, need to give him space). If I don't get force staff I build something like Orb of Venom > Bracer > Drum into Sange > Halberd. You have a lot of healing with Purification, so I relied on someone else always taking the mek role. If he's going to play only as a healer though, Mek into Drums is usually good. Though he can still be a great Pipe carrier, I feel like he shouldn't carry both Mek and Pipe, especially if other supports can get some farm.
    This ain't ova.

  7. #7
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    222
    I'm going to list just a few things I noticed that bother me at the moment.

    - Luna not upgrading Luna Blessing until level 25. She puts 1 point into at 1, then neglects it until 22. She should probably up it at 4,8 and 9 instead of upping stats.
    - Crystal Maiden and Zeus are still running Phase Boots rather than Tranquils and Arcane respectively, though I like CM's build change.
    - Too many bots go for Mek and don't have alternate builds. This is made worse by the fact Omni and Lion now also both go for it.

    Aside the Mek issues I like Omniknights build and Lion's 'looks' alright. Don't get me wrong though Mek is a good item all those heroes but not when someone else has it. Ideally there'd be a check if someone has a buckler before they'd start pursuing mek and if they are they either skip it or build an alternative like drums, this would also cover if the human decides to go for mek because if they have headdress they could pursue pipe. I don't know, there is probably a better solution, but this bothers me a little at the moment

  8. #8
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,903
    Agreed on Luna and her aura, and also for CM/Zeus.
    Furthermore on the Mek issue, remove the Mek from WR and DP.
    WR can perform a semi-carry role if she gets early damage items, I would recommend she goes as so:
    Code:
    "Loadout"
    {
    	"item_clarity"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_clarity"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_mantle"						"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"	
    	"item_tango"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_tango"						"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_branches"						"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_branches"						"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_branches"						"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_boots"						"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_magic_stick"					"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_recipe_magic_wand"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_magic_wand"					"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_blades_of_attack"				"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_phase_boots"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_ring_of_regen"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_staff_of_wizardry"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_recipe_force_staff"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_force_staff"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_ultimate_orb"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_mystic_staff"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_void_stone"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_sheepstick"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_demon_edge"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_javelin"						"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_javelin"						"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_monkey_king_bar"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_quarterstaff"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_robe"							"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_sobi_mask"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_oblivion_staff"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    	"item_quarterstaff"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_robe"							"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_sobi_mask"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_oblivion_staff"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    	"item_recipe_orchid"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_orchid"						"ITEM_DERIVED"
    }
    Orchid is arguable, I wouldn't mind seeing her go something else.

    For DP, she gets a Mek so late it's not that significant anymore.
    I've build her as so:
    Code:
    "Loadout"
    {
    	"item_branches"					"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_mantle"					"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_mantle"					"ITEM_CORE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_tango"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_flask"					"ITEM_CONSUMABLE | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    	"item_boots"					"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_blades_of_attack"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_blades_of_attack"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_phase_boots"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_point_booster"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_vitality_booster"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_energy_booster"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_soul_booster"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    	"item_void_stone"				"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_ring_of_health"			"ITEM_CORE"
    	"item_pers"						"ITEM_DERIVED"
    	"item_bloodstone"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_gauntlets"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_circlet"					"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_recipe_bracer"			"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_bracer"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    	"item_robe"						"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_recipe_ancient_janggo"	"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_ancient_janggo"			"ITEM_DERIVED | ITEM_SELLABLE"
    
    	"item_platemail"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_mystic_staff"				"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_recipe_shivas_guard"		"ITEM_EXTENSION"
    	"item_shivas_guard"				"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_reaver"					"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_vitality_booster"			"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_recipe_heart"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_heart"					"ITEM_DERIVED"
    
    	"item_ultimate_orb"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_void_stone"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_mystic_staff"				"ITEM_LUXURY"
    	"item_sheepstick"				"ITEM_DERIVED"	
    }
    So in short: Replaced Arcane Boots with Phase Boots, Removed Mek, moved Shiva's to after Drums instead of final item (She really needs that armor), Replaced Skadi with Heart, then finish things up with a Sheepstick (at that point in the game, disables are more important than anything)

    Also one thing you'll notice is that unlike the current builds I only make 4 items + boots, I keep 1 slot left for TP scrolls.


    In regards to Omniknights build, it's very tricky. He's a hero whom you build 100% dependant on your teams setup beyond the obligatory Soul Ring/Arcane Boots (unless you go Carryknight anyhow). If you got a lot of melee, get Vlads, if nobody goes Mek, get Mek, if nobody goes Pipe, get Pipe, if all these items are accounted for get things like Shiva's, Halberd etc.
    I think his current build is alright for a cookie cutter build, though the timing of AC is arguable, the only change I'd make to it is to replace Heart with Halberd. If he wants stayability in fights then Halberd achieves a better result (25% evade > the HP gain from heart) while giving more support to his team via a very powerful disarm. Of course he'll need to manually heal himself after fights instead of just letting Heart do it, but even so I believe Halberd is a better choice.


    I'd also like to know what Chris is planning with the roles. I think over the past week I've clearly pointed out flaws in how they handle the hero roles in many cases, but as I see no changes in this patch I can only assume that Chris wants to change their AI on how they handle it?


    EDIT: Also, Sven should go Treads -> BKB -> Daedalus -> AC -> Satanic
    In regards to changes I've seen so far on the test client: New Illusion/Necrobook AI is better, but Illusions have a tendency to just attack whatever is in sight in laning phase, pointlessly pushing the lane.
    Furthermore, while Necro units have OK AI now, the bots still RARELY use the item itself, which makes it still a rather subpar item on them.

    EDIT2: Actually, looking at them again... Necro unit AI seems pretty poor as well. Bane was busy diving the tower while his Necro units were sitting back waiting for a push or some such, and when Bane retreated they ran with him. They seem to think they're heroes or something, not expendables like Golem/Illusions do.
    Last edited by Arxos; 03-14-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  9. #9
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    222
    I didn't even know DP got Mek and I've played the bots A LOT.

    You are right on Omniknight and that's what I meant by that I liked it, it's good for cookie cutter until the bots can get some dynamic builds based on what the team needs.

    I like Orchid on WR but not late. If I go Orchid for her, it's done earlish or not at all. *shrug*

  10. #10
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    7
    I like most changes, but i belive it would be better if you palced it in the Bot bug forum which Chris checks and reads often.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •