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Thread: [Intended?] Slark's Essence Shift lacks an Attack Speed threshold check

  1. #11
    Basic Member ThoAppelsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arxos View Post
    This is really obsolete indeed.
    I mean the way it used to work is if he had begun an attack in the past second, he could trigger the Essence Shift effect with -anything-. Dark Pact, Pounce, Radiance, whatever.

    This is really the same as Riki's backstab and god knows how many other abilities that were smooth lined due to WC3 limitations in regards to on-hit events requiring awkward work arounds.

    Not even in the same direction...

    Look, the thing I am asking for is not that "Slark is unable to shift essence by beginning to attack, and at the same time the Dark Pact starts exploding, and then Slark is able to shift essence before damaging the target" or something like that...
    The thing I am asking for is that this thing effectively was preventing Slark from being able to shift essence in case his IAS drops down to -80 ~ -50. It is almost impossible without an Enchantress being in the play.

    We have the stupid cooldown, which does literally nothing at all here in Dota 2...
    This thing really does something, only when Enchantress is against the Slark, but it still does, I don't know why it shouldn't here

  2. #12
    Basic Member hoveringmover's Avatar
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    Did I read the title wrong? Well, the ability now has a cooldown, isn't that sufficient to substitute for the 'missing' "Attack Speed threshold"?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoveringmover View Post
    Did I read the title wrong? Well, the ability now has a cooldown, isn't that sufficient to substitute for the 'missing' "Attack Speed threshold"?
    It always had a cooldown. You're completely missing the point. Read this thread again from the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoAppelsin View Post
    Not even in the same direction...

    Look, the thing I am asking for is not that "Slark is unable to shift essence by beginning to attack, and at the same time the Dark Pact starts exploding, and then Slark is able to shift essence before damaging the target" or something like that...
    The thing I am asking for is that this thing effectively was preventing Slark from being able to shift essence in case his IAS drops down to -80 ~ -50. It is almost impossible without an Enchantress being in the play.

    We have the stupid cooldown, which does literally nothing at all here in Dota 2...
    This thing really does something, only when Enchantress is against the Slark, but it still does, I don't know why it shouldn't here
    I knew you were referring to that, but really the stealing via Dark Pact is actually more major than that. Quite frankly in cases where he can't finish his attack animation or perhaps interrupts it in favor of something else it can play a role. Not just against a single hero in a single (fairly rare, really) case.
    However, to me this really passes the boundary of silly mechanics to include in Dota 2. I imagine all it'll do is get us a false bug report every 2-4 weeks on people being confused about this.

    You're not in the wrong to report this, but I can't help but call intended.

  4. #14
    Basic Member ThoAppelsin's Avatar
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    Thanks Arxos I really appreciate that, I liked the read of your post.
    I really do not report everything, I have been seeing countless tiny differences while reading the code and these reports are just some remarkable picks out of them. At first I thought like maybe I should not report this one too, but then I thought about what would happen against Enchantress. She can drop the IAS by 110 at level 7, where Slark has like ~30 agi or something. 30 - 110 = -80 IAS
    Say that Slark has the PT -80 + 30 = -50 IAS

    And if Slark does not have anything more like branches or band, and he is a couple of levels behind, then he better just not shift essence from the Enchantress for being that so weak at that stage. That's what I've thought. This thing would affect only this case, and I could not see why this would be bad. That's why I've reported this one, and I still think the way I was thinking at the beginning.


    As I've said on the very first post, one may call this intended, but I would just support otherwise.
    No need to run down with "silly w3 mechanic" on this one, because it's not. The thing about being able to shift essence with Dark Pact is silly, and that is not what I'm talking about.

  5. #15
    Volunteer Moderator DLRevan's Avatar
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    Its not just in cases where Untouchable is invovled, but also purges. A purge would reduce IAS by 100 in the first update interval. It should also be easily achieved via some other less powerful slows like Viper strike or Liquid Fire, if its like in your case where the slark is terribly behind.

    That being said, I do agree with the others that it is an intended change (or even an oversight that doesn't warrant porting). While this is only valid in extreme cornercases, you could also argue that because of that, its not something very important to port. In addition, since you've recently gone through a lot of the dota map's jass, I think you may realise just how inefficient or even contradictory Ice's code can get. Sometimes even good code may look like genius, but may well be bits of insanity....ahem.

    I won't list or move this just yet, we can have more discussion since its not a big impact.
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  6. #16
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    keep it or change it, whatever. just dont waste precious time on discussing such trivial issues. ya i said trivial, and i mean it.

  7. #17
    Basic Member Kryil-'s Avatar
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    Not being able to Essence Shift while being purges is a HUGE issue (and not being to shift vs Enchantress at all, unless you got enough IAS).
    The behavior comes form IceFrogs horrible code and it's questionable if it's necessary to add such a barrier.
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  8. #18
    Basic Member mindfaQ's Avatar
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    I don't see any reasoning why this would not be an intended change. Skill now follows its skill description. Perfect.
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  9. #19
    Core Tester Chairraider's Avatar
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    This will not be included into the gameplay bug list. Can be added into intended/accepted changes list.

  10. #20
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    will do so then, added to intended change list.

    from my point of view the timer threshold is simply to cause the function to terminate.
    ofc the timer could be increased to an unreasonable amount of time, but that is a performance choice.
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