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Thread: [Confirmed] Hook is always ground targeting

  1. #1
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    [Confirmed] Hook is always ground targeting

    In WC3 you can directly target unit with Hook, in Dota2 you cant. It's not very useful, but can prevent situations like this...

    Last edited by lunatic3k; 04-28-2013 at 03:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Never knew it was duel targeting, but I see what you mean. If the enemy is on your cursor he's essentially blocking your hook now which would be rather frustrating since you'll expect your hook to cast at that moment. I always blamed it on the lag though lol...

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    added to sticky.
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

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  4. #4
    Basic Member ThoAppelsin's Avatar
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    Well, I will have to clarify one thing for this report here.
    There are actually 3 types of effective targeting for point-targeting spells in DotA:

    1 non-unit targetable spells
    2 unit targetable, but actually not spells
    3 unit targetable, and truly are spells

    Examples are;
    1 Blink from magina
    2 Hook from pudge
    3 Fissure from earthshaker or Sonic Wave from akasha

    Behaviour explanations;
    1 these spells are simply cannot be targeted to units, they just target the map
    2 these spells actually target the units, they make the hero chase towards the targeted-unit until they get within the cast range and start casting; but as soon as they get close enough to the targeted-unit so that he/she is within the casting range, the targeted-unit gets almost completely disregarded; and when the casting point is reached, the spell effects will be directed towards the targeted-location instead of the targeted-unit
    3 these spells target units, and when they do, they truly target the units

    Example behaviours can be;
    1 try to target a unit with Blink, but you can't
    2 set the game speed to slow and target an magina with Hook from afar, allied or enemy doesn't matter, as soon as you see that the Pudge is is now in the range, Blink somewhere near pudge before pudge reaches his 0.3 sec casting point; you will see that the Hook is not created towards the Anti-Mage, but created towards where the targeted-unit (magina) was when the casting had begun
    >> try it once again with Macropyre if you want, which has the same properties with Hook in this manner, but jakiro has 0.65 sec casting point, which makes it far more easier; make sure they are enemies because Macropyre is enemy-targetable

    3 target an enemy magina with Fissure from afar, as soon as you see earthshaker is close enough, Blink somewhere before the 0.69 sec casting point; you'll see Fissure will get created towards the targeted-unit

    The reason for these distinctions are;
    1 these spells do not have anything as their valid targets in their ability data
    2 these spells have "ground" as their valid targets in their ability data, which is the targeting type of all the heroes in DotA, including fireflying batrider; but the functions in the script just disregard any targeted unit, they just GetSpellTargetLoc
    >> SpellTargetLoc is the location that you have targeted while selecting targets with your cursor

    3 these spells have "ground" as their valid targets, and the functions primarily GetSpellTargetUnit and calculate direction of the effects regarding that, and if there is no SpellTargetUnit, then they GetSpellTargetLoc again.
    Or they are just using a hardcoded ability, like Sonic Wave does...
    >> SpellTargetUnit is the unit you have targeted with a point-target ability, and GetSpellTargetUnit returns null if there is no such unit




    These were all facts until now, now I will lay my opinions.
    If you ask me, the second variation is generally a chaos and should be changed in DotA by IceFrog to either be one or another. I'm telling you Frog, hear me out...


    Do this, and you'll understand what I mean:
    - pick a pudge
    - pick any hero
    - give pudge a level 1 hook
    - put the any hero about 1000 units afar from pudge, no need for precision, mark that point in your mind, call it pointX
    - order hook towards the any hero
    - now, make the any hero move away along the line that pudge and the any hero defines, away from pudge
    - make pudge chase the any hero so far away that he goes over the pointX
    - stop the any hero, wait for pudge to cast his hook


    Anyway, for the Hook case, I think it should rather be a pure ground target ability, as it currently is
    I had realized the same for Skewer some time ago while I was checking the Magnus, but decided not to report it, because I found it silly, and also Skewer already has 874367436 cast range, so such things don't actually happen... Only the cursor turns green. Same silliness that the hook makes would happen if it had a restricted casting range


    You can also try this:
    - pudge with hook
    - any hovering hero, batrider maybe
    - zoom in
    - put batrider closer to your screen and pudge afar, but put them close to each other
    - target the head of the batrider as a unit, but essentially targeting a location somewhere behind the pudge at the same time
    - try it once again with making pudge face towards you, if he wasn't already...


    Don't know, it is up to IceFrog to decide, but I'd say Hook actually should be a pure ground targeting ability, but I don't really care which as soon as it's not a chaos like this
    also sorry for the rainbow, else it was incredibly annoying and near impossible to read

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