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Thread: Addressing valvr's response about communication reports

  1. #21
    Basic Member mr.ioes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    That huge wall of text with aggressive colors and a largely condescending tone? This is what it would be if you were muted.

    Regardless of how pissed you are at the system, this is what the majority of the community wants. Muted players are the minority here, they're less than 1%. Want to quit DotA 2 because of how stupid the mute system is? We can still do fine with the 99% others.

    Remember that Valve aren't the ones reporting ragers - other players are. Other members of the DotA 2 community that really hate their attitude. And it probably takes up to 10 people in multiple matches just to get 1 player muted which is a lot of people when you think about it.
    +1

  2. #22
    Basic Member vipergod's Avatar
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    I've never been muted! but my team mates were! i cant play without communicate with mates, can you explain whats muted player's team mates fault?
    REMOVE THE MUTE SYSTEM NOW.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    this is what the majority of the community wants. Muted players are the minority here, they're less than 1%. Want to quit DotA 2 because of how stupid the mute system is? We can still do fine with the 99% others.
    So you're telling me that, before this mute system was implemented, "99%" of players have always wanted an automated mute system over the manual mute option? you gotta be joking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    Remember that Valve aren't the ones reporting ragers - other players are. Other members of the DotA 2 community that really hate their attitude. And it probably takes up to 10 people in multiple matches just to get 1 player muted which is a lot of people when you think about it.
    that's the main problem, it's the players choice. If you want somebody banned for saying "fuck" it's only 2-3 reports in a single week away.
    Last edited by zh3e; 05-29-2013 at 03:40 AM.

  4. #24
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    Still find it humours that valve find it okay to let players accuse judge and sentence other players.. Damn anarchy.

  5. #25
    Basic Member Psio's Avatar
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    Couple things....

    Moderators, I assume you will be banning Dedone for a week like you did to me when I threatened to chat report a player? Consistency is key ya know...

    Moving on....

    Like I said a month ago, the chat ban system is permanent. No amount of griping or well thought out arguments against it matters. Valve is a for profit company. They are not player centric, nor will they ever be. To find a company that puts players first, you need to look at small boutique gaming companies. I sell software for a living and I've helped finance too many companies to recall; from start-ups to veteran organizations. If I were a betting man, my guess is Valve is preparing for a public offering. The only way that can happen is if they show growth to a potential investor.

    Anyone find it ironic they threw out so many dota2 invites for free over the past month and that just happens to coincide with an overly aggressive player punishment system? That being that, their "data" which they are clinging to is inherently flawed. My bet is if they discount the number of smurf accounts, their "data" gets thrown out the window. Their claim that the abuse issue has been modified is nothing more than an outright lie. I personally reported a couple people yesterday for no other reason than they were horrible players and got the message that I helped make the dota2 community more friendly.

    The more responsible tact Valve could have followed would be a language filter. It's simple code, easy to add/subtract words. Lots of games use it. For some reason, Valve chose not to implement a word filter, so it begs the question, why? Why not simply install a simple language filter instead of instituting a widely hated, anonymous, automated, exploitable system like the chat ban?

    When you can answer that question my friends, you will understand the true nature of large gaming companies and their sole purpose of existence.

  6. #26
    Basic Member Shmendrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psio View Post
    Valve chose not to implement a word filter, so it begs the question, why? Why not simply install a simple language filter instead of instituting a widely hated, anonymous, automated, exploitable system like the chat ban?
    2 reasons:

    1 Abuse goes beyond language filterable words, you can learn to dodge the critical words and yet be pretty abusive ( At least by valve's standards)
    2 This system is about keeping new/casual players interested for longer time so they can buy stuff... Muting or stopping a player from saying FUCKING NOOB wont make a noob feel better about himself, while the report function gives them an option to REVENGE

    He called me a noob..I WANT REVENGE! REPORT!
    He beat me....I WANT REVENGE! REPORT!
    He told me Im an useless support because I dont ward nor support the team in any way...I WANT REVENGE! REPORT!

    And even gives them a confirmation message "Your revenge has been accomplished, he wont speak for a week"

    Quote Originally Posted by lindenkron View Post
    Still find it humours that valve find it okay to let players accuse judge and sentence other players.. Damn anarchy.
    It'd be good if it was community chosen volunteer mods, following a set of well defined rules

    not any random guy for any random reason he pleases
    Make a NON automated report system.
    I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
    Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
    The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

  7. #27
    Basic Member Pedrovp's Avatar
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    I really have a LOT to disagree with Valve's post, but most of the points are already made by some members here, and for the others, "Ain't nobody got time for that". Anyway, what gets me really mad is the fact that Valve said:

    The system is not yet ideal, but we felt it was better to gather data on this first step before trying to complicate it with extra nuance. We’ve changed the algorithm several times already, and we’ll continue to update it in response to the community’s feedback, and the data we’re gathering.
    That means, they already started with a FUCKED UP system and they admit it, so they could slowly update it to the ideal version. Meanwhile, the system is exploited and has many flaws and a lot of colateral damage is made, but for Valve it doesn't metter, we are just a huge living experience (I really feel like the portal's protagonist), so as long as they get to their ideal system at the end and are able to crush (literally) some numbers to their favor, it's fine to ruin some days or entire weeks to some players. I know they also do this for the MM system, for example, but in that case, it affects all of us way less then muting.

    And even at this ideal version, the only things they solved are exploits and some unjustified cases, but the main problems will still remain: it's automated, muted people has no feedback on why they are muted (so they can't appeal or defend themselves), can ruin the game or highly decrease the game quality for anyone playing with a muted player.

    So, If Valve wants to solve the problems related with bad behavior, they should do what any decent MMO company does: get a strict, clear and well defined set of rules, pay some moderators/GMs/Admins/whatever (i'm sure they have enough hat money to do that, even Riot does that, and they also have a f2p game with a market and a WAY more massive playerbase), give us back our infinite reports and let they check each one of them and all the legit reports will lead to a punishment, and this player will know exactly why he's being punished, and the report spammer guy can also be punished for spamming reports that are not legit. Also, the pinishemnt itself must be something that doesn't affect other players (as mute clearly does), and they already have one (LP) and if they want something more severe, just give a temporary ban from the MM. The only automated punishment system should be LP for people who leave or dc.

    Valve is just being terribly lazy and greedy about that, they just want to use algorithms, numbers and implement automated systems to solve human problems, instead of just pay people to solve people's problems.

    EDIT: sorry for the double post, the forum went down when i was posting, already deleted the second one.
    Last edited by Pedrovp; 05-29-2013 at 05:17 AM.

  8. #28
    Just got off my 2nd week long mute. First off, I used to solo queue a lot, and I love friendly banter between myself and teammaters (or even opponents). Now, I'm afraid to even tell my supports to buy wards, to pull neutrals, or to defend towers even. I find myself stacking with people I know, just to avoid the chance of getting reported. Even when I'm in a stack, I avoid saying anything other than tactical instructions, and I avoid talking altogether on all chat.

    Just my 5 cents worth, this system is making the game antisocial, despite making it difficult for abusive action.

    To Valve:
    Well played!
    Well played!
    Well played!
    Well played!
    Well played!

  9. #29
    Basic Member Psio's Avatar
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    As far as "pay" goes... any game I have GM'd or Forum modded paid me with in game currency. It costs the company nothing and I'm sure there are a plethora of 13 year olds that would volunteer for no pay.

    BSG used to pay us 100k a month, just enough to buy a large ship. With the amount of hours put in babysitting forums and the game itself, it totally wasn't worth it.

  10. #30
    Basic Member Thoru's Avatar
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    Even on these forums it's around maybe... 100 - 200 people saying the mute system is bad. It's also only 10 - 30 people arguing for it. However, people who don't like it are a vocal minority, as has been said. No one who isn't muted is going to go around yelling about it, they have no reason to. I expect fully to be told how wrong I am, so please help me understand your point of view, just do it in a rational way. thank you

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