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Thread: Stone Gaze only amplifying Phys damage, it increases everything in DotA1

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    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    Stone Gaze only amplifying Phys damage, it increases everything in DotA1

    Stone Gaze's stun gives 100% magic resist and creates a trigger much like Shadow Demon's Soul Catcher (creating an additional damage instance equal to a % of the original damage instance). Stone Gaze's amplification, though, goes through magic immunity, so it's most likely "pure universal" damage (which, as far as I know, is only used by this spell).


    Because that trigger doesn't check damage type, Stone Gaze doesn't amplify just physical damage, but everything that deals a damage instance (so, everything not affected by the 100% magic resist).

    Which is basically physical and pure damage, since mixed and magical are negated.


    Stone Gaze's debuff (100% magic resist + % amplification from all sources, resulting in no magical damage but an increase on all the rest) is pretty much the same as Oracle's Fate's Edict. Icefrog had this idea of making a reverse ethereal effect and decided to give it to two heroes at once. But despite them being pretty much the same effect, one of them has the correct tooltip in DotA1 (oracle) and the other has a wrong tooltip (Medusa), resulting in a misport of the mechanics.
    Last edited by shalafi; 06-06-2013 at 01:46 AM.

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    Basic Member hoveringmover's Avatar
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    Icefrog is well-known for his tooltip errors.

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    interesting.
    i think valve, as well as many players (including me), thought 100% magic resistance means magic immunity, but apparently it's a trap. of coursepure damage bypasses magic resistance. silly me(and valve)

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    See thats a tricky sort of bug. It was presumably intended to only boost physical damage by design (logically with the spells theme / medusas effect), but icefrog coded it in a lazy way that didn't account for pure damage / etc that isn't affected by the magic resistance, which is an engine limitation as such a distinction is not easy to do, so the spell clearly works on all types of non-magic damage. So going by the tooltips and what we can tell about intentions, is this an intended fix, or a parity problem?

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    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clan_iraq View Post
    See thats a tricky sort of bug. It was presumably intended to only boost physical damage by design (logically with the spells theme / medusas effect), but icefrog coded it in a lazy way that didn't account for pure damage / etc that isn't affected by the magic resistance, which is an engine limitation as such a distinction is not easy to do, so the spell clearly works on all types of non-magic damage. So going by the tooltips and what we can tell about intentions, is this an intended fix, or a parity problem?
    I would call it intended fix, due to the tooltips, if it wasn't because of oracle. But IF in 6.78, as I said, has created a new status (albeit triggered) that is pretty much reverse ethereal status. While ethereal makes you immune to physical and take 40% increased magic damage, this new status is the exact opposite.

    I consider that some consistency has to be achieved here. In DotA1 they both behave increasing pure, the tooltips state that only one of them do. If DotA2 follows the tooltips, we will have an exception to a status used by TWO skills, and inconsistency in the gameplay between the two games. To be honest, I would rather have the medusa tooltip changed than that.

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    Are we sure this is meant to be a new generic status and not two 'unique spells with unique effects', that just happen to be mostly similar? I gather there could be plenty of argument for a new inverse ethereal form (especially if it is used like ghost scepter, in item form), but nerif was just meant to work with magic damage because his hero used magic damage (on allies, on the heal), and medusa was just meant to work with physical because she used physical (on the enemies), then eh, working... better than intended?
    Problems like these would be a lot easier to sort out if we could just ask IF

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    Basic Member Kaneomanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clan_iraq View Post
    Are we sure this is meant to be a new generic status and not two 'unique spells with unique effects', that just happen to be mostly similar? I gather there could be plenty of argument for a new inverse ethereal form (especially if it is used like ghost scepter, in item form), but nerif was just meant to work with magic damage because his hero used magic damage (on allies, on the heal), and medusa was just meant to work with physical because she used physical (on the enemies), then eh, working... better than intended?
    Problems like these would be a lot easier to sort out if we could just ask IF
    IF would have made the spells act different to pure damage if he wanted to make them different (especially if he implemented them at the same time, making their similarity very obvious) so yeah pretty sure this is intended in dota 1 and a bug in dota 2.

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    Basic Member shalafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clan_iraq View Post
    Are we sure this is meant to be a new generic status and not two 'unique spells with unique effects', that just happen to be mostly similar? I gather there could be plenty of argument for a new inverse ethereal form (especially if it is used like ghost scepter, in item form), but nerif was just meant to work with magic damage because his hero used magic damage (on allies, on the heal), and medusa was just meant to work with physical because she used physical (on the enemies), then eh, working... better than intended?
    Problems like these would be a lot easier to sort out if we could just ask IF
    I'm pretty sure he copy-pasted pretty much all of the code from one trigger to the other.

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    added to sticky.
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

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    Petrified units gain 100% Spell Resistance, making them take 0 damage from Magical, Mixed, and Universal, and Enhanced Spell-typed damage. All other damage goes through normally and triggers the amplified damage. The amplified damage is dealt in a separate instance akin to Soul Catcher, and the damage type is indeed a new damage type not used before in DotA (Attack Type: Hero, Damage Type: Universal, essentially "Pure Universal" that is blocked by nothing and only reduced by Fortified Armor). If the unit is Ethereal, the amplified damage is Pure instead (??? I don't know why).

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