Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 13 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 155

Thread: Muted for giving advice apparently??

  1. #21
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn432 View Post
    Man. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of making a better community right? You could say that the chat ban isn't working as intended. The nerve of that guy, offering advice to other players.

    Laughable.
    Well said. Bleako is merely reflecting the negative attitudes here.

  2. #22
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Legendary skill bracket
    Posts
    2,280
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolstone View Post
    The problem I have with the communication ban system is that the terrible Dota 2 community that needs to be moderated with such a system is also the same community in charge of handling the system. By doing this, you're essentially giving the power to ban people to the same people who tend to need bans. There's no actual reason to use the report feature for actual abusive players. People just tend to report whoever they don't like. Obviously being abusive gets you reported a lot, but so do a lot of other things. I've heard of people saying they've gotten reported for arguing with a teammate without actually being abusive in any way. Some other guy reported a player for buying a vanguard on AM. I don't think this is okay.
    And I entirely agree with you, but this doesn't mean the system is inherently bad. It just needs to be tweaked so that it can actually detect false reports better and let people prove their innocence. The suggestion in my signature is actually hoping to fix this.

    Again: you need a penalty tied to the report system for every type of offense. Right now the big issue is that people are unable to tell the actual reasons behind their punishment so it's very easy for an extreme trashtalker to say something like "yeah I don't rage ever and people reported me for saying 'here, take my tangos' and now I have a 300 hour mute ban"
    Last edited by Bleako; 06-17-2013 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #23
    Basic Member erik-the-red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    4,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    It's kinda unrealistic to expect people to react positively to criticism given by complete strangers. Especially when the one giving advices is an opponent. This is just insulting and condescending.
    Let me give you "insulting" and "condescending"; I disagree, but let me give you that for now. Is it abusive or disruptive?

    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    smurfing to dodge mute. getting muted on the smurf.
    life sure is tough on you.
    Yet another example of the overbearing self-righteousness found in your typical automated mute system supporter.

    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    your last nicknames:

    5 out of 8 give clear indication that you like to mock your enemies and allies.
    it's ridiculous that a player with that kind of mind set assumes he can teach other players without brushing them the wrong way in the very same game.
    I love how blash doesn't weight the names by the number of times they were used. But that's just a nitpick. Is "brushing [players] the wrong way" via "teaching" abusive or disruptive? That's supposed to be what a communication abuse report is for, not "I got brushed the wrong way."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    What kind of adequate system could penalize trashtalkers appropriately in a way that doesn't piss them off anyway? Legit question here, give me examples.
    How about the manual mute function? Nothing pisses trashtalkers more than the sound of silence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    Trashtalkers don't ruin games and they shouldn't have to play with feeders and trolls just for lacking manners.
    But according to Valve, trashtalkers are the reason why new players leave the game. If they aren't ruining games, then why would new players leave because of them?
    We need a player review system like Overwatch for DotA 2. Get real people to judge communication abuse, intentional skill abuse, and intentional feeding.



    merci fenix

  4. #24
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    your last nicknames:

    5 out of 8 give clear indication that you like to mock your enemies and allies.
    it's ridiculous that a player with that kind of mind set assumes he can teach other players without brushing them the wrong way in the very same game.
    How exactly do any of those names give you the idea that I like to mock my allies? This isn't entirely relevant, but you're claiming something like that without actually backing it up with anything.

    I guess you can consider that it's mocking to have the audacity to say "?" which is a punctuation mark used in the end of questions, or the word "easy" which is an adjective that means "not hard". If you can consider something like a question mark abusive, what can't you consider abusive? Is it just anything that makes you angry personally? There's probably a lot of things that make people angry in Dota 2. If people had more reports than two a week, there would be a ton of (arguably) unwarranted communication bans. That's probably a sign of a flawed system.

    Not that this is relevant anyway. I made this thread to talk about the most recent communication ban I got.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    What kind of adequate penalty system doesn't dish out penalties? You can't ban people because they'll just make smurf accounts, you can't throw them in low priority queue for raging because the penalty is unfair, you can't just put a language filter because saying bad words isn't the actual issue but instead the intentions behind the words... you can't take away their cosmetics because they paid money for it...

    What kind of adequate system could penalize trashtalkers appropriately in a way that doesn't piss them off anyway? Legit question here, give me examples.
    I don't think the problem is the fact that trash talkers are getting penalized, it's the fact that people are using the report system to punish anyone they don't like. I'm all for banning people who just spend the whole match calling their team racial slurs and whatnot, but I don't think giving advice or saying stuff like "?" is something you can consider reportable. Valve hasn't defined what is considered verbally "disruptive" or "abusive" and has decided that it's up to the playerbase to decide. This might have been a good idea, but sadly the Dota 2 playerbase isn't a very nice one. In fact, Valve introduced a communication ban system to try to make it better.

    I can understand why Valve has this current system in place. It's cheap, effective and essentially caters to the players' needs. It just has a ton of collateral damage and I'd imagine it'll just get worse once actual trash talk becomes frequent. I'd prefer a system where if a player gets like 4 reports in a week, an actual moderator looks at his games and decides if he's being abusive, with "abusive" actually having a definition of some kind. I doubt anything like that will happen, though.

    A cheap solution that would fix a lot of problems (not all of them) would be as simple as disabling all-chat by default. If you want to chat with the other team, enable it. If you find someone on the other team annoying, disable all-chat. No cross-team reporting.
    Last edited by Foolstone; 06-17-2013 at 02:08 PM.

  5. #25
    Basic Member erik-the-red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    4,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolstone View Post
    I guess you can consider that it's mocking to have the audacity to say "?" which is a punctuation mark used in the end of questions, or the word "easy" which is an adjective that means "not hard". If you can consider something like a question mark abusive, what can't you consider abusive? Is it just anything that makes you angry personally? There's probably a lot of things that make people angry in Dota 2. If people had more reports than two a week, there would be a ton of (arguably) unwarranted communication bans. That's probably a sign of a flawed system.
    blash has gone on record as saying that "vodka vodka putin" as your in-game handle is offensive and reportable. He has also stated (not with these words, of course) that he reports players for being bad and not improving in game. The problem is not blash but how many "blashes" there are in the community reporting people for these "reasons."

    Valve hasn't defined what is considered verbally "disruptive" or "abusive" and has decided that it's up to playerbase to decide. This might have been a good idea, but sadly the Dota 2 playerbase isn't a very nice one.
    Exactly. Valve's solution to the problem of a "toxic community" is to...have the same community police itself with NO OVERSIGHT? Hmm.

    I'd prefer a system where if a player gets like 4 reports in a week, an actual moderator looks at his games and decides if he's being abusive, with "abusive" actually having a definition of some kind. I doubt anything like that will happen, though.
    As I understand it, this is basically how Riot does Tribunal in League of Legends. As my sig says, if we just gotta have punishments, then we need player review as in Tribunal. The current system doesn't tell you what you did wrong in which games. That's enough to get behaviors to change, but we've seen what those changes are: rage ping spam (so problematic that Valve throttled pings from muted players), "Well played!" spam, and courier feeding.

    A cheap solution that would fix a lot of problems (not all of them) would be as simple as disabling all-chat by default. If you want to chat with the other team, enable it. If you find someone on the other team, disable all-chat. No cross-team reporting.
    Riot actually experimented with this and found that disabling all-chat by default reduces negative communication interactions (determined by hand coding).
    We need a player review system like Overwatch for DotA 2. Get real people to judge communication abuse, intentional skill abuse, and intentional feeding.



    merci fenix

  6. #26
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    11,187
    Quote Originally Posted by erik-the-red View Post
    blash has gone on record as saying that "vodka vodka putin" as your in-game handle is offensive and reportable. He has also stated (not with these words, of course) that he reports players for being bad and not improving in game. The problem is not blash but how many "blashes" there are in the community reporting people for these "reasons."
    people choose their nickname. it is very often the kind of "character" they intend to exhibit in their online presence.
    the name alone is not necessarily the reason for the report but it is a good indication of how a person behaves in their usual online game. you can compare it with a freudian slip if you want.

    "vodka vodka putin" is an indication for latent xenophobism
    "muted for saying ez" is an indication for trashtalking
    "me solo mid" is an indication for extremely selfish play

    i might not report people for all of those things myself, but the point is that there are people who find them offensive and they will report you. so either you take into account offending those people and take your mute or you manner up. it's as simple as that.
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

  7. #27
    Basic Member Playedlots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by sn1 View Post
    Dick move, ban deserved. I won't expand on this much further, as it is not the main topic of this thread. I just wanted to ensure you were aware that the gesture mentioned above is not appreciated at all.



    I will admit, if we interpret your comment based on the word-choice alone, your comment means well. The problem is, you just killed people on the opposing team and then proceeded to give them advice in a condescending voice. Example, I punch you in the face (on accident of course), then I say "Make sure you don't stand there next time I decide to swing my arm." Don't rub insult into injury. How long have you been playing dota 2? I am sure you have witnessed advice given, and how rarely it is appreciated. If you honestly were ignorant to the fact advice is not taken well in dota 2, well at least you learned something new to carry into the future.

    One more thing. Your name makes almost everything you say sound like an asshole comment. Think of it this way, it's like someone named "Smart ass" is giving you advice. More than likely not taken well.
    You know it was condescending because you were sitting next to him?

  8. #28
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    268
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolstone View Post
    Hello duders,
    Can someone figure out what the abusive thing I said was? Assuming Valve is telling the truth, I was abusive in all of those games since they don't chatban you for getting reported in one match.
    just dont talk in game and you will lessen your chances of getting muted. Of course you can be muted for anything so to completely avoid getting muted just don't play dota2. Also, don't come on these forums and expect sympathy or people to take your side for being "unjustly muted". There are 40 people lurking here 24/7 just waiting to tell you you're behavior is ruining the community and you should be ashamed of yourself. That's my advice

  9. #29
    Basic Member erik-the-red's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    4,682
    Quote Originally Posted by blash365 View Post
    "vodka vodka putin" is an indication for latent xenophobism
    So if my in game handle is "Nobama," I'm a racist? What if it were "Mittens" or "Shrub"? This is you being overly sensitive about what I presume is your Russian nationality.

    "muted for saying ez" is an indication for trashtalking
    "me solo mid" is an indication for extremely selfish play
    1. Sure, I'll give you this.

    2. Right, because there's another way to say that you want mid when you're muted. Oh wait, there isn't. Also, I wasn't aware that "selfish play" is a reportable offense. Once again, you expose yourself as a person who reports people basically for being bad.

    i might not report people for all of those things myself, but the point is that there are people who find them offensive and they will report you. so either you take into account offending those people and take your mute or you manner up. it's as simple as that.
    This is why we need player review. I believe that if the "reason" for being reported was "in game handle is 'vodka vodka putin'" and that was it, the player would be pardoned.
    We need a player review system like Overwatch for DotA 2. Get real people to judge communication abuse, intentional skill abuse, and intentional feeding.



    merci fenix

  10. #30
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    11,187
    Quote Originally Posted by erik-the-red View Post
    This is why we need player review. I believe that if the "reason" for being reported was "in game handle is 'vodka vodka putin'" and that was it, the player would be pardoned.
    i already said that the nickname is not the problem, it is the indication of the problem.
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •