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Thread: Muted for giving advice apparently??

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  1. #1
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    Muted for giving advice apparently??

    Hello duders,

    My last chatban ended on last thursday (I earned that chatban by saying "?" in chat after ganking folks). Anyway, I decided to do some good for a while and give out advice while playing Dota 2. I played about 3 games before I decided I was done for the night. People reacted surprisingly negatively. Last sunday I found out my communications were taken away for another week. Is giving advice considered abusive now?

    Here are links to the three games I played. I'm "wise sensei"

    http://dotabuff.com/matches/218868254
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/218837670
    http://dotabuff.com/matches/218709351

    Can someone figure out what the abusive thing I said was? Assuming Valve is telling the truth, I was abusive in all of those games since they don't chatban you for getting reported in one match.

    Here's a picture that explains my situation:

    Last edited by Foolstone; 06-17-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Basic Member MeSoloTopPlz's Avatar
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    Seems like this Plague called mute ban is really coming back to bite valve in the......forums.

    OT: I dont know, what i do know from what i've seen is that you can get muted if you are reported in 2 games in a row, no matter if you earned it or not, so tread lightly, Match making added another hazard to it's name.

    Playing solo is a gamble nowadays, you have to behave your best to not offend anyone. Almost feels like a concentration camp where one word said at the wrong place in the wrong time can end up with getting you muted.

    Worst part is for the repeat offenders, if you were reported once - say a month ago- got banned for 24 hours, then said to yourself "o shit, i have to be careful how i behave!"

    and are well mannered for this one month and then suddenly you piss someone off again and get reported - BAM! Muted for 48 hours, and so forth.

    I don't like this system at all. I think after a week ban they should reset the reports on a player, so the next time he gets a single report it doesnt count as a "pattern" and net him another week ban for a single report.

  3. #3
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
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    It's kinda unrealistic to expect people to react positively to criticism given by complete strangers. Especially when the one giving advices is an opponent. This is just insulting and condescending.
    Last edited by Bleako; 06-17-2013 at 12:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    It's kinda unrealistic to expect people to react positively to criticism given by complete strangers. Especially when the one giving advices is an opponent. This is just insulting and condescending.
    What's even more insulting and condescending is the fact that this system treats people like weak-minded, little victims, who cannot handle the slightest bit of adversity.

  5. #5
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldrax View Post
    What's even more insulting and condescending is the fact that this system treats people like weak-minded, little victims, who cannot handle the slightest bit of adversity.
    The "system" isn't automatically detecting insulting comments and randomly throwing bans around... it's only giving punishment based on player reports. Which were made by 100% real actual humans that found the comments to be insulting enough to warrant wasting a couple minutes to write said reports.

    Why would you even need player reports if there was no penalty?
    Last edited by Bleako; 06-17-2013 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    The "system" isn't automatically detecting insulting comments and randomly throwing bans around... it's only giving punishment based on player reports. Which were made by 100% real actual humans that found the comments to be insulting.
    Duh, that's how the system works, and it doesn't change a thing about what I said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    Why would you even need player reports if there was no penalty?
    Why would you ever need inadequate penalty systems?

  8. #8
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
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    What kind of adequate penalty system doesn't dish out penalties? You can't ban people because they'll just make smurf accounts, you can't throw them in low priority queue for raging because the penalty is unfair, you can't just put a language filter because saying bad words isn't the actual issue but instead the intentions behind the words... you can't take away their cosmetics because they paid money for it...

    What kind of adequate system could penalize trashtalkers appropriately in a way that doesn't piss them off anyway? Legit question here, give me examples.
    Last edited by Bleako; 06-17-2013 at 01:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sn1 View Post
    I will admit, if we interpret your comment based on the word-choice alone, your comment means well. The problem is, you just killed people on the opposing team and then proceeded to give them advice in a condescending voice. Example, I punch you in the face (on accident of course), then I say "Make sure you don't stand there next time I decide to swing my arm." Don't rub insult into injury. How long have you been playing dota 2? I am sure you have witnessed advice given, and how rarely it is appreciated. If you honestly were ignorant to the fact advice is not taken well in dota 2, well at least you learned something new to carry into the future.

    One more thing. Your name makes almost everything you say sound like an asshole comment. Think of it this way, it's like someone named "Smart ass" is giving you advice. More than likely not taken well.
    Your argument doesn't seem very sound. How exactly is an actual crime like assault anywhere near as bad as killing someone in a video game? Even if we disregard the inaccuracy of this comparison, you're still claiming that it's "insult to injury" to give someone advice how to avoid dying in a video game. Giving out advice isn't actually really a hostile move unless you are bad at taking it. If you consider that it's against the rules to give advice, you're essentially reinforcing the idea that Dota 2 has one of the worst online communities out there, and that it can't handle things like taking advice without getting upset to the point of reporting you for communication abuse.

    It would also be contradictory with rest of the game as the game gives you advice while you play the tutorial. There's also a mentor system coming to the game, which is based on the idea that one person gives advice to another. I guess you could still argue that we don't need to hear advice from your opponents, but in that case why is there all-chat in the first place? It serves no tactical purpose, so it's really only used for (apparently) insulting the other team and saying gg. You might as well remove all-chat completely. Or I don't know, make it something that you can only enable in the options like in LoL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleako View Post
    The "system" isn't automatically detecting insulting comments and randomly throwing bans around... it's only giving punishment based on player reports. Which were made by 100% real actual humans that found the comments to be insulting enough to warrant wasting a couple minutes to write said reports.

    Why would you even need player reports if there was no penalty?
    The problem I have with the communication ban system is that the terrible Dota 2 community that needs to be moderated with such a system is also the same community in charge of handling the system. By doing this, you're essentially giving the power to ban people to the same people who tend to need bans. There's no actual reason to use the report feature for actual abusive players. People just tend to report whoever they don't like. Obviously being abusive gets you reported a lot, but so do a lot of other things. I've heard of people saying they've gotten reported for arguing with a teammate without actually being abusive in any way. Some other guy reported a player for buying a vanguard on AM. I don't think this is okay.

  10. #10
    Basic Member Bleako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolstone View Post
    The problem I have with the communication ban system is that the terrible Dota 2 community that needs to be moderated with such a system is also the same community in charge of handling the system. By doing this, you're essentially giving the power to ban people to the same people who tend to need bans. There's no actual reason to use the report feature for actual abusive players. People just tend to report whoever they don't like. Obviously being abusive gets you reported a lot, but so do a lot of other things. I've heard of people saying they've gotten reported for arguing with a teammate without actually being abusive in any way. Some other guy reported a player for buying a vanguard on AM. I don't think this is okay.
    And I entirely agree with you, but this doesn't mean the system is inherently bad. It just needs to be tweaked so that it can actually detect false reports better and let people prove their innocence. The suggestion in my signature is actually hoping to fix this.

    Again: you need a penalty tied to the report system for every type of offense. Right now the big issue is that people are unable to tell the actual reasons behind their punishment so it's very easy for an extreme trashtalker to say something like "yeah I don't rage ever and people reported me for saying 'here, take my tangos' and now I have a 300 hour mute ban"
    Last edited by Bleako; 06-17-2013 at 01:34 PM.

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