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Thread: Tutorial keeps Veterans away from Dota 2

  1. #21
    Basic Member Stinkepete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganonmaster View Post
    I can't stress this enough. Last night I wanted to hop in and play Dota 2 with a friend who is familiar with Dota and dota style games but never played Dota 2. Well that didn't work quite as planned, because he was forced to complete the tutorial first. 3 tutorial maps, 10 middle lane practice matches and 5 full games against bots and 10 random games with a limited hero pool. You can not tell me that takes less than half an hour. We didn't get around to playing together that night, and it looks like we won't be playing tonight either. It's eaten up 8 hours of his time to this point. Time we would have liked to spend playing together and not fighting bots on easy mode.

    I can understand that Valve wants to help new players and stop smurfing, but this is stopping people from playing together or even having them consider playing at all. In my opinion, if you wanted to casually jump in and play some games with your friends, you should be able to do so.
    you can actually play the games together (those limited hero pool matches) by being in a group when starting the que through quest (yes, both online and offline) so its just the solo tutorials you have to get through, which makes 30 min, mb 1h realistic.
    Last edited by Stinkepete; 07-10-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stinkepete View Post
    you can actually play the games together (those limited hero pool matches) by being in a group when starting the que through quest (yes, both online and offline) so its just the solo tutorials you have to get through, which makes 30 min, mb 1h realistic.
    I tried inviting my companion and vice versa, to no success. If you have some sort of insight into how that would work, please let me know, because it didn't work when we tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeProdigy View Post
    It should not under any circumstances be skippable
    When you play, you play with 9 other people and if you are bad you ruin the game for all the others playing.
    And the 3 million players who are already into the game without the tutorial are all at that same level? And what kind of guarantee do you have that people get the mechanics and can effectively play the game when these tutorials are forced onto them? Don't kid yourself. If Dota has taught me anything it's that people are dumb, never learn from their own mistakes and blame it on the rest of the team. A tutorial with bots isn't going to teach you how to be a team player or how to improve on your own. If you want to become better at a game like DotA, LoL or any other competitive title, the key is lots of practice on a regular basis. And yes, the tutorial will help you get off to a great start. But if you are like me and maybe just want to jump in once every two weeks, catch up or play with your (online) friends, and have some fucking fun, you shouldn't have to wade through hours of single player practice. At least give people a way to join a game with their friends if they're still in tutorial mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by dennson View Post
    Well this point is really correct, thats how i learned to play the game. I would always pick the hero that raped me in the last game and then build exactly the same.

    But there is 1 big problem, in Warcraft 3 we had other maps to play, people joining dota1 would always have some of minor controlling and a clue what to do and stuff. But in dota 2 there are no custom maps that makes the game bit harder to play for new people because they dont know what to do (only if they come from lol, hon or this new 3rd person thing dont know how it is called)
    The 10 minute tutorial map at the start is good for most of that. The 15+ forced matches afterwards are not. I'm OK with some sort of tutorial, be it skippable or short and non-invasive. Offer a way to play with friends. Playing with friends is sometimes an even more valuable learning experience than linear tutorials.

    Again, this forced tutorial may stop smurfs, but it also stops veterans from getting back in as well as casual players looking to play with their friends. I don't think turning away legitimate players in order to prevent smurfing is a fair trade-off. Ever.

  3. #23
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    My friend has only done the dragon knight quest. He never touched the Sniper quest. He only did 1 quest. But he has been in beta for a while...
    James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
    * 25.02.16 - 26.02.16
    Spoiler: 



  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GermanViet View Post
    My friend has only done the dragon knight quest. He never touched the Sniper quest. He only did 1 quest. But he has been in beta for a while...
    The forced tutorial has been there for I think a couple months now, and at that time, the only quest was the Dragon Knight quest. Last week's update increases the total tutorial length significantly to the point where it's just an obnoxious grind. As I said earlier, my friend only first booted up DotA2 on Monday and had to complete the whole thing before we could do anything. He's familiar with the original DotA, has played a ton of LoL, as well as many RTS games. You can't tell me he needs to play 15 bot games before he's allowed to play a game with me and my friends.

  5. #25
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    open console "sv_cheats 1" "dota_ability_debug 0" and you have wtf mode in your tutorial.
    (This is no secret if you search around a bit there were many lazy players who flew through the tutorial.)

    The tutorial is mainly made for new players and I also see it as a smurf prevention. Players creating new accounts just so they can stomp some noobs.
    You might have run into an unfortunate situation but this doesn't happen normally.
    James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
    * 25.02.16 - 26.02.16
    Spoiler: 



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGoLaSSS View Post
    Had no idea that new players had to go through the full tutorial before being allowed to play normal game modes.

    Unskippable tutorial is always, ALWAYS a bad game design decision. Especially when they're are that long.
    Then how to deal with smurfs in a f2p?

  7. #27
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    You only have to do the dragon knight tutorial. After that you can immediatly start finding matches. Your friend most likly forgot to switch tabs and thought he has to do the remaining tutorial.
    James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
    * 25.02.16 - 26.02.16
    Spoiler: 



  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GermanViet View Post
    open console "sv_cheats 1" "dota_ability_debug 0" and you have wtf mode in your tutorial.
    (This is no secret if you search around a bit there were many lazy players who flew through the tutorial.)

    ]The tutorial is mainly made for new players and I also see it as a smurf prevention. Players creating new accounts just so they can stomp some noobs.
    You might have run into an unfortunate situation but this doesn't happen normally.
    Did you even read my previous posts? Everyone is forced into the tutorial and is forced to play those 15 bot games + 5 random games. Saying that "this doesn't happen normally" is just BS. If the point is to prevent smurfing, why force the tutorial if they can just breeze through by enabling that? As I said in my previous posts, this forced tutorial turns more people away than it does prevent smurfing.

    Quote Originally Posted by omegadon3 View Post
    Then how to deal with smurfs in a f2p?
    There's even smurfs in paid games. Accept that they're there.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by GermanViet View Post
    You only have to do the dragon knight tutorial. After that you can immediatly start finding matches. Your friend most likly forgot to switch tabs and thought he has to do the remaining tutorial.
    The forced tutorial UI does not have tabs.

  10. #30
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    DotA pic2.pngDotA pic1.png

    I tested this myself. I only did dragon knight quest and after that on the left I could switch via the tabs to the normal matchmaking.
    Before that I couldn't click on "Find a Match". It was disabled for me. I needed to do the first tutorial only.

    I did not have to complete the whole tutorial.

    Chances are your friend finished the first tutorial and didn't see that he could go directly into matchmaking. And he kept on doing the tutorial.

    edit: Added pictures
    Last edited by GermanViet; 07-10-2013 at 04:06 PM.
    James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
    * 25.02.16 - 26.02.16
    Spoiler: 



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