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Thread: A Recommendation-based Matchmaking System

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    Basic Member rtkufner's Avatar
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    A Recommendation-based Matchmaking System

    A Recommendation-based Matchmaking System that Emulates Five-Player Parties


    What is it?
    A matchmaking system that emulates five-player stacks, taking player recommendations of qualitative teamplay-oriented parameters into account, in order to optimize team affinity.



    How to do it?
    A) Primarily:
    Implement a recommendation "web", where players gravitate towards each other during matchmaking according to previous (in priority order): a) mutual recommendations of identical and/or complementary parameters; b) mutual recommendations of any parameter; c) players that have been mutually commended by other player(s).
    *Obs.: What this does is basically an emulation of 5-player stacks based on previously recognized/self-recognized teamplay affinity.
    B) As a backup (for when there are not enough players from a "recommendation web" to be matched together during a given search):
    System uses ammount of recommendations to complement basic ELO matchmaking, so that matching similarly/complementarily recommended players is prioritized.
    *Obs.: Recommendations are only prompted between players from the same team and that are not in the same party, and they are not visible in any way or form, so that they don't aggregate cosmetic appeal and have no tangible benefit from possible abuse.



    Why would we want it?
    - Has no particular benefit or penalty associated with it;
    - Hidden endmatch recommendations hold no appeal for abusers, since you have no way of knowing if anyone is recommending anyone or how many recommendations anyone (including self) has;
    - Community adjusts itself; no need for fancy coding algorithms;
    - Discourages smurfing;
    - Lessens in-team friction and tension = lessens rage-induced comm abuse/ability abuse/intentional feeding = lessens report abuse;
    - Matches players by affinity, in that it's primary directive emulates 5-player parties;
    - Qualitatively complements randomness and arbitrarity of intermediary ELO-range matchmaking;
    - Substitutes/complements current commendation and matchmaking systems with a relevant, constructive and informative one;
    - Allows newer players with potential/willingness to learn advanced tactics/gameplay mechanics from more experienced players, even if they aren't steam friends/are not available in the same time of day to play with any;
    - If only a small number of people actually bother to commend me, those are precisely the people I want to be commended by and to play with;
    - System could be implemented today with no abrupt changes, would smoothly amplify its presence as people recommend/stack recommendations of parameters they want their team mates to follow;
    - Doesn't affect people who want to "play their own game" at all; for them, it'll be the same as always;
    - Easily undone if overwhelming unfavorable feedback is given by community.



    What about the current commendation and matchmaking systems?
    This system could complement the current systems.



    Blablabla parameters this blablabla team-oriented that. Give us actual examples of teamplay-oriented parameters.
    General parameters:
    Team-oriented pick (player picked based on other picks from his and the opposing teams)
    Build-adaptability (player adapted his build to his team's necessities)
    Role-adaptability (player adapted his role to his team's necessities)
    Patience (played safe/did not take risks, within team's necessities)
    Willingness to coordinate (self-explanatory)
    Willingness to learn (self-explanatory)
    Role-specfic parameters
    Role-player (played his role to the degree of the team's necessity)
    Warding (made effort to ward the map according to team's necessity)
    Baby-sitter (support that made effort to allow his lane's carry farm while harassing the enemy)
    Farming (made effort to farm according to team's necessity)
    Ganking (made effort to gank according to team's necesity)
    Hero-specific parameters
    Void: Chronosphere (proper use of the spell)
    Magnus: Reverse Polarity (same as above)
    Enigma: Black Hole (same as above)
    Earthshaker: Echo Slam (same as above)
    Dazzle: Shallow Grave (same as above)
    Centaur: Stampede (same as above)
    Naga Siren: Song of the Siren (same as above)
    (this section can include any spell that the team or part of it can depend on for coordinated teamplay)

    Then, depending on gamemode, each section of parameters can have differing degrees of relevance. E.G.: In All Pick, only general parameters are applied; All Random, Single Draft, Random Draft and other possible future modes that have mandatory randomness involved, role and hero-specific parameters have increased relevance. And so on.




    FAQ (to be added if they come up)/Common Critiques and Answers about the proposed system:

    CC) I don't like other people determine my "skill" or "group" I belong to. -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) People are not going to determine your skill. They will simply be able to give recommendations to behaviours they deem healthy for the team.
    If you are unwilling to play as a team or even if you are an outright confessed troll, this recommendation system would not touch you; for that we have the report system.
    If you just play poorly, the recommendation system will either:
    - Not be relevant, in the cases of players that are skilled and tried to do their best but are on a bad day and such - since not getting commended in that particular match is gonna have little impact in your bracket standing because of the recommendations you get in the long run;
    - Get you commended for paramaters that involve willingness to play as a team.
    And it's actually going to be beneficial in the case of unskilled players that clearly want to learn to play better/work as a team, and who, by getting commended, will have a lesser chance of being stuck playing with low bracket trolls. That might even help smoothing out the flaming/comm abuse issues.

    CC) But you are still being placed in the matchmaking system dependant on OTHER peoples actions against you. -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) Recommendations are in favor and in favor only. Such system cannot be used against anyone. It would either be beneficially relevant, or completely irrelevant.

    CC) I don't think matchmaking should have any player input at all in that regard. -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) It has always had. If someone makes the team I am playing in win/lose, and WLR is counted as a matchmaking parameter, than everyone in my team can and eventually will indirectly define in what bracket I'm gonna end up on. It might not be blatantly evident, but your individual skill is statistically responsible for barely 1/5 of your bracket standing. Someone might even argue that the average skill or lack thereof of the opposing team is as important as the average skill of your own team.

    CC) The system you mention requires people to give commendations... and I'm not sure they will most of the time. -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) That's the whole point. The people who give recommendations are the people who actually care about the health of the teams they play on. These are the people that are aggravated the most by the current matchmaking, and the only people who would really be affected by an eventual recommendation system.

    CC) But there is no 100% guarantee that you will get commendations when you are a nice person and a teamplayer. -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) It gets smoothed out in the long term, unless you never got commended. And like I said, it is not going to solve the whole issue overnight. It's a system that will slowly optimize chances of people getting teamed with the kind of players they have affinities with.

    CC) So you might get hold back from joining the "club" just because you won't get any commendations. -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) In which case it will be as if this recommendation system didn't even exist.
    You start doing healthy choices for your team, though, and whenever you get a constructive player in your team you will get commended and your chances of being matched with other constructive players in your coming matches will be increased by a small bit.
    This system is not supposed to seggregate: it's simply supposed to give preference for players to be matched with people that want to play the same way.
    It's not like you will NEVER get matched with people from other brackets. That could make waiting times rise to hours in some instances. It just defines preference.
    Also, there's no "club". There should be hundreds of brackets, one for every (I am giving a random value here) 50 commends or so?

    CC) A non-voting matchmaking system seems to work in other team games... why not in this one? -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) Because in none of these other games the behaviour of a single player can completely decide the outcome of a match. Otherwise I'm sure the community would feel inclined to have been able to minimize the chances of that one player ruining their game (and denying them several minutes of play).

    CC) And what happens when people get voted into the good group? They won't get matched with the "normal" group anymore... so how can they vote people in?
    In the end the only one who can vote people into the good group are the ones stuck in the normal group.
    Theoretically that means atleast one poor player will be stuck in shit tier even though he belongs in the good tier. -originally posted by user Kumori

    A) It's not about a good and a bad group. It's about the establishment of several brackets driven by player defined parameters.
    Not all that different from a ladder system, just instead of taking only quantities (games played, WLR) into account, it also takes qualities that players value.
    Also you would never be stuck, since there will never be an exact multiple of 10 people from the same bracket searching for matches. You would almost always have two or more adjacent brackets mixed in the same match. Just not based on completely arbitrary values such as WLR and games played (what would also minimize the smurfing/WC3 DoTA players issue).

    CC) Why can't I, alone, without having to rely on some other players, decide which kind of players I wanna play with? for example: hardcore; friendly/teamplayer -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) Dota is a community game. If who I want to play with is not who the average community wants me to play with, than I am probably wrong - AKA the Ego/solo player issue.

    CC) And when you obviously don't belong in the one you checked you will get kicked out from it and can't check it again for couple of days, a proper ban/punishment? -originally posted by user Kumori
    A) And who would decide if you belong there or not? A moderator, who can be as arbitrary as he pleases? The players themselves, in which case it's pretty much a reverse commendation (report anyone?) system, counter-productive since it would have to establish pre-defined brackets just so that players can get kicked from them if deemed unfit to be there?

    CC) (...) players rating players is probably the "best" solution to actually rating players; but the instant you place it in the hands of the vocal minority (us) it becomes a dangerous weapon. -originally posted by user Scrub-Zero
    A) But that's where a recommendation system triumphs: You don't actually get to rate people. You get to commend specific teamplay related parameters. So if a player doesn't care for communication and strategy, doesn't care for playing the role he picked, doesn't care to adapt, etc. he won't get a bad rating; instead, this guy will simply never get commended, matchmaking will prioritize that he gets matched with people that have the same selfish playstyle. If he wants to go up a bracket and play as a team, he will have to start doing healthy choices for his team, as doing that will net him recommendations and he will eventually get preference to play with other teamplayers.
    That way everyone that wants to evolve their teamplay can get to do just that, instead of never knowing what kind of game the people you are matched with want to play.

    CC) Your system simply relies on the hope that players would be too lazy to abuse it. -originally posted by user Craig
    A) It's not about being lazy, per se. It's about being unable to derive any tangible pleasure from it. All their work would net them is a drop of water in a sea of statistics.
    Even if I'm completely mistaken and a significant part of the community finds an obtuse way of abusing this system, they will find so little (if any) incentive to do this, that abuse would quickly lose its appeal.

    CC) (...) in recommendation systems (So Amazon, Netflix, dating sites, etc where they recommend something similar to what you liked in the past.) they are sketchy at best. -originally posted by user Ladar
    A) I can deal with sketchy. What I (and a sizeable portion of the community, from what I can see in these and other Dota 2 related forums) can't deal with is complete and utter unpredictability.
    I would like to know that every time I press "Find Match" the system is working in an optimal search based on qualitative parameters that reinforce teamplay.

    CC) Your entire system relies on blind faith that your extensive forms would be filled out much more frequently and honestly through genunie desire to improve a player's matchmaking status, when it is felt that they deserve it, than through abusive patterns such as commend trading.
    Surely, you can agree with that. -originally posted by user Craig

    A) My blind faith is not exactly directed at the frequency of and honesty in the filling of these forms, but rather in the lack of appeal for filling them for unconstructive reasons - but both are correlated, so sure, I can agree with that - unlike the current commend system, which has cosmetic appeal for some people.


    #My thanks and credits to users Kumori and Scrub-Zero for the CCs that can be originally found on these threads: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=96895&page=4 and http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=96362&page=5
    Thanks and credits, also, for users Craig and Ladar for the CCs that can be originally found in this very thread.




    Sorry about the massive wall of text. Critiques and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by rtkufner; 12-14-2013 at 08:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Basic Member Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtkufner View Post

    ...

    Little to no abusability;

    ...

    Sorry about the massive wall of text. Critics and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Were you in the beta program when all the commend trading was taking place?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtkufner View Post
    CC) The system you mention requires people to give commendations... and I'm not sure they will most of the time.
    A) That's the whole point. The people who give recommendations are the people who actually care about the health of the teams they play on. These are the people that are aggravated the most by the current matchmaking, and the only people who would really be affected by an eventual recommendation system.
    You should think this through a little bit more. Would people really give commendations because they care about the health of the community or would they do it to achieve a selfish goal? Is the report system used for the health of the community or to be vindictive?
    Last edited by Craig; 07-14-2013 at 06:07 AM.
    To avoid LPQ:

    Don't draw attention to yourself
    Don't use voice or chat except for 'ss'
    Mute all at lvl 1
    Only play in parties
    Get alternate accounts
    Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account
    Don't play too well
    Don't play on Sunday or Monday
    Wait until the developers reset LPQ status

    If you're getting matched with trolls or feeders:

    You may have been placed in a hidden pool. There is no known way out of this, apart from moving to a different account.

  3. #3
    Basic Member rtkufner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Were you in the beta program when all the commend trading was taking place?
    Absolutely. And it still does. Not as blatant as in mid-Beta, though.

    And that is a simple problem that predictably comes with such a simple and arbitrary commendation system.

    What I propose is a system where if you want to increase your chances of being matched with a given player you will actually have to go through the excrutiating pain of filling a comprehensive list of general, role and hero-specific parameters. I do not think too many people would be willing to spend several minutes filling one form for every player in his team in the hopes that one of the other guy does so as well. And if you're thinking about botting, you could even add one of those character checks in the bottom of it.

    Mind you, I'm not talking about "hey commend me, I commend you, *click* *click*, done ggwpglhfallthxbro". I'm talking about "*click**click**click**click**click**click**click* *click**click**click**click**click* *click**click**click**click* *click**click**click**click**click**click**click** click**click**click**click**click**click*
    *click**click**click**click**click**click**click** click* *click**click**click**click**click**click**click** click* (.........)" (sorry about the exagerated repetition, I'm trying to illustrate my point). A system that mostly (if not only) constructive players who actually think about their team play would care to go through, since they would have absolutely no immediate benefits from it, cosmetic and whatnot.

    (I did not put it in the OP, but these recommendations should not be visible, like the commend system we have now. Ima go add that)


    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    You should think this through a little bit more. Would people really give commendations because they care about the health of the community or would they do it to achieve a selfish goal? Is the report system used for the health of the community or to be vindictive?
    Selfishly go through the trouble of filling a long form that would not immediately benefit anyone? That could only bring you any benefit (in the form of being matched with like-minded players) in the long to very long-term?

    How exactly can anyone get any selfish benefits from such a system?

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    TL;DR

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    Basic Member rtkufner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarfindorf View Post
    TL;DR


    Short version*:
    Quote Originally Posted by GoLD_ReaVeR View Post
    players (...) mixed based purely on willingness to learn





    *Quote taken from final paragraph of last post in this page: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=97381&page=2
    Last edited by rtkufner; 07-14-2013 at 06:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Basic Member Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtkufner View Post
    Absolutely. And it still does. Not as blatant as in mid-Beta, though.

    And that is a simple problem that predictably comes with such a simple and arbitrary commendation system.

    What I propose is a system where if you want to increase your chances of being matched with a given player you will actually have to go through the excrutiating pain of filling a comprehensive list of general, role and hero-specific parameters. I do not think too many people would be willing to spend several minutes filling one form for every player in his team in the hopes that one of the other guy does so as well. And if you're thinking about botting, you could even add one of those character checks in the bottom of it.

    Mind you, I'm not talking about "hey commend me, I commend you, *click* *click*, done ggwpglhfallthxbro". I'm talking about "*click**click**click**click**click**click**click* *click**click**click**click**click* *click**click**click**click* *click**click**click**click**click**click**click** click**click**click**click**click**click*
    *click**click**click**click**click**click**click** click* *click**click**click**click**click**click**click** click* (.........)" (sorry about the exagerated repetition, I'm trying to illustrate my point). A system that mostly (if not only) constructive players who actually think about their team play would care to go through, since they would have absolutely no immediate benefits from it, cosmetic and whatnot.

    (I did not put it in the OP, but these recommendations should not be visible, like the commend system we have now. Ima go add that)




    Selfishly go through the trouble of filling a long form that would not immediately benefit anyone? That could only bring you any benefit (in the form of being matched with like-minded players) in the long to very long-term?

    How exactly can anyone get any selfish benefits from such a system?
    When the reward is better teammates, these guys will go to any lengths to ensure that they get their commendations. Your system simply relies on the hope that players would be too lazy to abuse it. That's not how the DotA community operates. Ever seen a guy spend 40 mins of his life trolling a courier?
    Last edited by Craig; 07-14-2013 at 06:59 AM.
    To avoid LPQ:

    Don't draw attention to yourself
    Don't use voice or chat except for 'ss'
    Mute all at lvl 1
    Only play in parties
    Get alternate accounts
    Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account
    Don't play too well
    Don't play on Sunday or Monday
    Wait until the developers reset LPQ status

    If you're getting matched with trolls or feeders:

    You may have been placed in a hidden pool. There is no known way out of this, apart from moving to a different account.

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    [QUOTE=rtkufner;657800]Short version*:


    I don't understand any of your post, It's like you put it through a bootleg version of Google Translate...

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    People should be able to run their own matchmaking system.

    You should be able to run a external matchmaking server (I.E Add a option that is "connect to external matchmaking server") which can use what ever rules that you want. It shouldn't be that difficult to set up with a custom API (You 10 people connect to this port, okay you all connected, now let's find you a server and let you play on it)

    I think you idea is horrible but you should be at least able to implement it to see it fail. Adding external matchmaking would also allow for custom modes, custom mod, etc.

  9. #9
    Basic Member rtkufner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    When the reward is better teammates, these guys will go to any lengths to ensure that they get their commendations. Your system simply relies on the hope that players would be too lazy to abuse it. That's not how the DotA community operates. Ever seen a guy spend 40 mins of his life trolling a courier?
    Hold on. Are you referring to the same people in all the bolded instances? Are you saying that what the trolls want is better team mates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Your system simply relies on the hope that players would be too lazy to abuse it.
    It's not about being lazy, per se. It's about being unable to derive any tangible pleasure from it. All their work would net them is a drop of water in a sea of statistics.
    Even if I'm completely mistaken and a significant part of the community finds an obtuse way of abusing this system, they will find so little (if any) incentive to do this, that abuse would quickly lose its appeal.

    I'll reiterate, what I propose is a long-term *optimization. I just cannot contemplate a quick fix for the MM issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Ever seen a guy spend 40 mins of his life trolling a courier?
    Yes, and though I don't sympathize, I can easily see how this can be fun(ny) for a player whose intent is to mock/abuse/annoy his team. I cannot see, however, the link between this kind of action and the act of filling comprehensive forms.
    Last edited by rtkufner; 07-14-2013 at 07:22 AM.

  10. #10
    Basic Member rtkufner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladar View Post
    I think you idea is horrible
    Would you care to elaborate?

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